Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, it's Eloise. Quick heads up before this episode starts, what you're about to hear is from the Fertility Cafe archive. We're bringing some of our past conversations back because new listeners find this show every week and these stories deserve to keep finding the people who need them. If you've heard this one before, give it another listen. Something always lands differently the second time. And if it's your first time, you're in the right place.
Okay, let's get into it.
Hey there. Welcome back to Fertility Cafe. I'm your host, Eloise Drain.
Welcome to episode 70 of Fertility Cafe.
In this episode, I want to share with you the real life story of one egg donor and what the experience was like from her perspective.
According to the CDC, there were a total of 330,773 egg donation cycles in 2019.
That's mind boggling. Even if the average donor completed two cycles that year and oftentimes donors will only complete one, that's still more than 165,000 egg donors that year alone.
We hear all the time about intended parents, their IVF journeys and what the process was like for them.
But we don't often talk to the donors who help make these journeys possible.
On with me today we have a special guest, Ray Hyde, a six time egg donor who donated from 2015 through 2018 to six families in the US and abroad.
Ray, welcome and thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: So first, let's start with your story. Looking back on your experience, how do you feel about your donations?
[00:01:55] Speaker B: I love the fact that I was able to be an egg donor. I look back on it and it feels even though now I'm dealing with a lot of complications from it, it's still, I look back at that and I just feel fulfilled. Like I feel like it was part of my purpose and I feel like I got to check off a box that most people never get to experience. And I'm just, I'm thrilled and I'm honored that I got to be an egg donor six times.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: So what was your motivation for donating? Like, how did you even get started down that path?
[00:02:32] Speaker B: So I think like a lot of women, my initial motivation was financial.
I remember talking with a girlfriend of mine in college. We were just joking around one day about how, you know, it's kind of one of those snarky like girls versus boys conversations we were having with some of our friends and saying, oh, boys only get $50 to donate sperm and egg. Egg donors get like $5,000. And so we were kind of just being catty about it, and then I was like, really like. And of course I'm a starving college student, you know, doing writing gigs on the side, trying to pay for tuition and all of that stuff. And so I'm like, really? Like, women get $5,000 to donate eggs. And so I just started looking into it and I went to a clinic out in California where I and did kind of like a pre screening interview just to learn. And I think they had a group of potential donors there who were just there to get information.
And I saw this couple and they were in one of these, like, consult rooms and they had the door open and they were waiting for someone to come back. And I just remember I could still see them in my head, just feeling the weight of the world on their shoulders. And they, they weren't hysterical, they weren't being loud or dramatic, but just like the weight of the emotion coming off of them. And they were maybe late 20s, early 30s, and they were trying to have kids. And seeing them, seeing how devastated they were that they might not be able to have children, that's what cinched it for me.
Seeing them. I was like, okay, I was meant to be here. I was meant to see this. I was meant to overhear these things. Like, this is what I meant to do. I meant to help them. Because I personally don't want children. My husband doesn't want children. But genetically, we've been very fortunate. I mean, my grandmother is one of the longest living survivors of leukemia in California. And so we have some really great genetic blessings. And I would love to pass that on to the people who are so passionate about having children that they're devastated at the idea that they might not. Those are the people who are supposed to be having children. And so that's really what cinched it for me.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: So in total, you've done six donations.
Was it always through a fertility clinic or did you go through agencies?
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Yes, it was always through agencies.
I really didn't know that you could go straight through a clinic until after I had done six and I had learned more about it. And I think that's. That's one of the issues, right, is we get into these things and we kind of get swept up in the momentum of it all. And, you know, the profiles and the assessments and the genetic screenings and psychological screenings and IQ tests and all of these things. And then it's like this whirlwind. And then at the end, I learned everything that I really should have learned. At the beginning part of it. But yes, I went through three, two. Two different agencies over the course of six donations in five different states.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Five? Yeah. Okay, so it was all over the place.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And some of one of my IPS were actually in Israel, and not all of my IPs were in the same city and state as the clinic where I did the donation. That's where their surrogate was. But my IPs were all over the world.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: So. Did you have a relationship with any of your intended parents?
[00:06:00] Speaker B: I donated to four heterosexual couples and two homosexual couples. With the heterosexual couples, it was always a closed donation, completely anonymous. And I had no.
No relationship, no connection. I still know nothing about the outcomes of those donations with one of the homosexual couples that I donated to. They're in Israel, and I did learn that they had a baby girl. And during the screening process, we did do a zoom call where I was able to meet with them and talk to them. And oh my God, I was so nervous. I was like, I want to impress these guys. Like, I really want to donate for them. It was like worse than a job interview. I was so nervous. And then another gay couple that I donated to, I do have a very good relationship with them, and they've kept me in the loop, and I know about. About all the babies that they've had, and they send me photos and they send me a Christmas card. And I would have to say if it wasn't for that family keeping me in the loop and the outcome of my donation, I would probably feel very differently about my entire experience as an egg donor. But getting to see the fruits of your ramifications. Yes, the fruits of my labor. Yeah. And the ripple effects of everything that I went through, it just makes it so worth it even to only know about that one family.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: So what do you think about this whole donor anonymity and having donors be an intended parents, be anonymous? And, you know, some of it is because parents choose to be anonymous or donors choose to be anonymous. Some of it is because it's not even an option to be open donation. But what is your thoughts on that, given your experience?
[00:07:40] Speaker B: I'm always very pro choice everything. I believe everyone should have their own choice about whatever happens in their life. But for me, and you know, if a friend ever came up to me and said, hey, do you recommend I do an open donation, a known donation or an anonymous donation? I would say do a known donation because one, the emotional reciprocation is just unbelievable. It's so much more fulfilling and it makes it so much more real when you can actually have a relationship with the people that you're donating to.
Also, just from a pragmatic standpoint for the health of the kiddos who are born, you know, they might come to me in five years, 10 years saying, hey, you know, little so and so is having this problem. Have you, are there any recent developments in your family history that we should be aware of or, you know, something to that effect?
And so from both the psychological side, the emotional side and the medical side, to me, everything points to known donations.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And I agree. I mean, I got a chance to meet my egg donor baby this spring and it really, you know, when you're going through the process, I think you're emotionally removed sometimes from what the actual outcome could potentially be, which is obviously a human being. And so you don't really, really think about it. But once you, like, see there's a tangible human being in your face now, it changes everything for you. It really does change.
And now more so, a lot of donor conceived people are coming out and saying, hey, you know, I need to know. Not because I want to just know, just because.
But what if that person's genetic DNA is going to affect my outcome of life down the road? Like, I should have that right to have that information. And now there's plenty of states that are starting to look into it. I mean, shoot, Colorado is one of the states that passed where come 20, 25, there is no more anonymous donation, sperm or egg.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I've been able to have zoom calls with one of the children born from my donation. And he's, I think he's three now, so, I mean, not a lot of conversation, but just getting to know his personality and his dads will ask me questions like, when you were a kid, were you like this? Were you like this? You know, what was your personality like? What, what activities did you like to do? What were you drawn towards? And they tell me that their son who was born from my donation has a lot of the same personality traits. And they're like, we have no idea where he's getting this from because neither of us are like this. He must have gotten it from you. And I'm like, yeah, I was exactly like that as a kid. And so it's just fascinating. You know, we, we think of genetics as the color of your hair, the color of your eyes, the color of your skin. It's not, it goes so much deeper than that. It goes into your personality, your, you know, your relationships, the way that you interact with People in the environment, the way that you see the world, there's so much hidden in our DNA that we don't understand.
And so I think that's a big part of people understanding and accepting themselves as they get older.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
Let's go back to your actual donations though, and kind of talk about what the experience is like in. Okay, you had to go through all of the screening and then you had to then start taking medications and then, you know, obviously retrieval and all of that. What was all of that like? Like, can you walk me through that?
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah. So the process of becoming an egg donor and just getting listed for me, that was actually kind of exciting because I'm. I'm a very self competitive kind of person. You know, I loved doing college applications in high school. I was, oh God, I know, I know I'm weird.
But I love the thrill of I'm going to do my best, I'm going to write this amazing essay, I'm going to put it out there. Will they pick me? And then ultimately I got accepted into every college that I applied to and that was thrilling for me. And so it was kind of like that with egg donation where I was applying to. I think I applied to three or four agencies and I ultimately got accepted into all of them, but I had to pick one because I was like, I don't know how this works. Am I allowed to have multiple agents? I didn't know. And so I just picked one.
And that process, you know, it was a little surprising going through it all to find out all the things that they ask you. I mean, I didn't think they were going to have me take an IQ test. That was a surprise. And then the genetic counseling session, I thought that was going to be more. I mean, I came from getting a degree in psychology and my background's in psychology. And so I assumed it was going to be a, you know, how do I feel about this? Do I understand the risks, you know, what's my emotional state like? But really they were only interested in my family's mental health history. They asked if I had anybody who had any kind of like down syndrome or Asperger's, you know, any kind of mental health condition that affected their functionality as an individual. And so it was very surprising. Some of the things that I thought would be one way or I didn't even think would be an issue, like submitting my SAT scores. I mean, I did this when I was 25 and I was like, I don't even know how to get those records anymore. So things like that. It was just a bit odd. But ultimately, I kind of found it exciting to complete the application and then go, oh, are they going to accept me? And then the process of being matched, I really don't remember that very well. And I think that's because it happened very quickly. I think I was matched with ips, usually within a month or so of my profile going live each time.
And then in one case, I did have two sets of IPs pick me at the same time, and one decided to wait until my previous cycle was done, and then I did a cycle for them.
From the actual medical standpoint, it was.
It was interesting. I have never had to inject myself with anything so that I think I remember the first time I did it. I had my husband with me at the time, who was my boyfriend at the time. Now he's my husband. And I was like, okay, okay, I can do this, right? I can do this. And I was kind of hyping myself up, and I'm like, closing my eyes, and I'm like, you know, did I do the alcohol swab right? And, like, am I getting this right? You know? And then you have to do anywhere from four to eight, depending on your medications and things and how many injections you do per day. You know, morning and night, you have to do four to eight injections a day. And so that kind of hype, I guess, or nervousness went away very quickly. And after a while, it was, this is getting a bit much. And I felt like a pin cushion, and my tummy was all like, you know, I had all these little purple and red spots and things. And so that was. That got a bit old quick.
And I would say the part that was the most varied, though, was the clinical experience, because I worked with five different clinics over the six different donations, and just experiencing how different ones operated and how different clinics treated me differently. At some clinics, I was barely looked at. I was barely talked to. In one, I remember the nurse never even looked at me. She looked at my chart. She asked my name. She had me on the table. She did the ultrasound with the probe.
She left. Never said anything to make me feel comfortable. Even though, you know, your knees are up and your legs are spread and you're in this very vulnerable sort of environment. And so there was kind of that experience on one end of the spectrum. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I had some clinics that were just, like, super caring and compassionate. They want to know how I was feeling. They wanted to know if I was experiencing any discomfort or pain or, you know, what was my water retention like? I mean, they would ask me all of these questions. What was I eating? Oh, yeah, make sure you drink some Gatorade. Make sure you eat salty foods. You know, they. They were just very concerned about my well being and my experience.
And so that sort of variability was during the. The three or so years that I donated. That was kind of the biggest determining factor in whether or not I was happy about being an egg donor or not.
That was kind of the most impactful piece of it at the time.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: What about the retrieval? And real quick, just to kind of make a note, I know you said you taking a number of injections on a daily basis. That actually is.
I guess I would say everybody is different because when I was a donor, I only needed it. Well, I took injections twice a day. It was in the morning and then the evening.
So I think everybody is different in the that regard for. And then, of course, every clinic has different protocols. Yeah, but how was the retrieval and, you know, the experience of the. How many eggs you receive or not you received, but you were able to get retrieved and all of that?
[00:17:25] Speaker B: My first donation, which was in Ohio, that one, from what I later learned, was pretty normal for a donor, I think. I. I ended up donating 27 eggs in my first one. And it was very successful. I. It was really uncomfortable the day of. You know, you're kind of like ready for the bloating to be done and the swelling to go down and all of that. But I remember that clinic and that staff, and they were just so sweet. They were very compassionate. They want to make sure I was comfortable. They took really good care of me and they kept my husband at the time, my boyfriend, very well informed of. She's okay. She's just coming out of the anesthesia, you know, so that was a really great experience. And then fast forward to donation number three, which I did in California, and they got 63 eggs, and I ended up with OHSS, which was. Oh, I was gonna say incredibly painful. And I was by myself for that one. My husband couldn't get time off of work. And then so they had a nurse stay with me at night. But other than that, I was just ubering everywhere and I was in my hotel room by myself. And it was scary because after the retrieval, which the retrieval itself went fine, I was shocked to hear that they got 63 eggs afterwards. And then later on, just throughout the day, getting progressively more. Just feeling very full in my torso.
And I remember sitting in my hotel bed that night and I felt like there were bubbles around my collarbone and I was having a hard time breathing.
And so I called the nurse. She hadn't arrived yet. I think this was probably around 6 or 7. She was supposed to be there at 9 or so. And she goes, okay, well, you know, take this and take this and take this and drink this and don't do this. And I can't even remember all the things that she told me to do. And I'm just sitting there trying to not panic because I know that's only going to make it worse and just breathe. But I felt like I couldn't breathe past about my sternum. Come to find out, my lower abdomen had filled with so much fluid that it was actually pushing my organs and my lungs up to the point where I couldn't take deep breaths because the capacity was no longer there. And that explained the bubble feeling that I. You know how you get kind of like a gas bubble cramp in your torso? It was like that, but around my collarbones.
And that was because of the pressure that was building up in my torso. And the next day they were about an hour away from doing surgery to remove all of the fluid when my body finally started responding to the meds that they were giving me and letting go of all the fluid that my ovaries and my body, I guess just kind of sucked in and held onto in response to the shock from the 63 eggs and the drugs and all of that stuff.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I did a donation myself and I want to say they retrieved like 40 something eggs.
And I didn't. It wasn't to that capacity where I couldn't breathe. But I was so sick. I mean, I kept throwing up and I just, I mean, I just was feeling so horrible. So, so horrible. And the thing about it is, is I'm flying out the next day.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: To go back home. And I was also by myself because when I did these donations at that time was not necessarily a common thing for you to even bring a companion. It wasn't even something that people would suggest for you.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: It was just an added expense back then.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: Exactly.
Now it's a requirement.
Well, for our agency anyway. And it was horrible. It was horrible. So I can't even imagine, you know, that experience and not being able to breathe and how scary that was. But then you went on to do subsequent donations.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: I did. And I credit a lot of that to the clinic where they were saying, you know, they basically put it on me. They Said, oh, I guess your body is just super fertile. And it just responded, you know, maybe your body's too sensitive. And it responded weird to the medications and such and such and such and such. And I was like, okay, well, that was actually the one clinic that I did two donations with. And the logic there was, okay, well, they know how my body responded in donation number three, so they're probably going to reduce all my medications and kind of keep closer eye on things for donation number four.
Turned out in donation number four, they got something like 48 or 53 or something outrageous again. And I didn't end up with OHSS that time, but I was in a lot of pain. I was super uncomfortable for days afterwards. Whereas with donations one and two, I was fine after the. I remember after donation number one, my husband and I actually went walking around the mall and went to a movie theater, and I was fine. I was, you know, glad for it to be over. And it was. I was comfortable. I was walking around. But after that, I refused to work with that clinic anymore. My agency at the time did want me to do donation number five there, and I absolutely refused. That was a deal breaker for me because I just kind of lost trust.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: In particular.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, not all clinics are, you know, the same. They're alike. And not all agencies are alike either, so.
And so what about the. The fifth and sixth donations? Did you experience any problems with those?
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Number five was also in California, but a different city. And that one went fantastic. And that was actually the one I did for the gay couple who I. I know their kids and, you know, we have a good relationship and everything.
That one, it couldn't have gone more perfect. I think they got eggs and they were able to create.
I believe it was nine female and six male embryos, something like that. And they now have a boy and a girl from my donation. So that one was really successful. And I remember feeling just fine. Number six was in New Jersey, and the clinic was okay. It was a little weird because I had different team members every time I went there, so I kind of wasn't able to build rapport with one nurse or one project manager or case manager, I suppose. I always saw different people. It was a huge facility, and it was a little impersonal in the sense that I was walking around this ginormous campus, and every time I'm meeting different people and nobody knows my name and, you know, but medically, that one went fine. I remember that they only got 21 eggs, and I felt disappointed. I felt bad I felt like I had let the IPs down because my previous numbers had been so high. They were in the 30s, the 40s, the 60s, which I know that doesn't always translate into the most mature and viable eggs. But, you know, I was just used to coming out of the anesthesia and they tell you a number and it kind of became almost a little competition with myself, like, oh, did I do as good this time as I did last time? And. And I just remember feeling like I didn't do good enough for the IPs, and I didn't know the IPs for this one. It was a heterosexual couple who wanted it to be a closed, anonymous donation. And I never, never found out the results of that one or anything like that, but that was it. I did have my IPs from donation number five come back about a year ago, asking me to donate one more time for them because they weren't sure if they were going to have enough eggs from a previous donor for husband A to have a child with his previous donor's eggs. And so ultimately, though, their eggs ended up being viable and they didn't need me to donate again. But the New Jersey experience really put the cap on it for me. I decided I was not going to donate again. My agency had found a seventh match for me and they said, you know, this is not usually protocol. Usually we stop at six. But this couple, you know, they've had their eye on you for a while and they really want you to donate for them. But the experience in New Jersey kind of made it to where I was like, oh, it's just not worth it anymore. And the only way I was going to donate again is if it was for that couple that I had a good relationship with. For them, I would probably do anything. I'd probably give their kids a kidney if the kid needed it, you know. But that's when I really decided, okay, I'm done. It's time for me to retire.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: In the beginning, you mentioned that you're. You are now experiencing issues related to the egg donation. What issues are you experiencing?
[00:26:25] Speaker B: In context, I would say I'm very fortunate. I know a lot of donors who have had really severe problems like ovary and cysts and cancer and things like that. I'm luckily not dealing with anything like that. My issue is that all of my hormones are basically non existent. My body is not producing estrogen, progesterone, luteinizing hormone, fsh, any of that. My body's not producing anything, and even my testosterone levels are extremely Low.
So basically what that means is a lot of the metabolic processes in my body are basically halted. So I. I can't lose weight. I've put on quite a bit of weight, and I. I haven't been able to lose it no matter what I do.
I also have a lot of trouble with my energy.
So it.
I don't sleep very well, and my energy throughout the day is.
I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, it's about a 2. And that's become normal for me. And I have to find a way to function and run my businesses and, you know, do all the things around my house. And we were talking earlier about, I have chickens and a dog and a ca. Cat and a gecko and a husband who's now retiring and coming to work from home and all these things going on. And I have to figure out how to manage all of that with basically no energy that my body's producing. So it's. It's just everything is kind of gridlocked. And so I'm going through a process now of trying to get off of birth control pills, which because my husband and I don't want children. I've been on since I was. Is 17.
I'll be going through a tubal ligation surgery so that I can get off all synthetic hormones. And hopefully with that and some supplements and a lot of prayer and meditation, I'm hoping that I can get my body to turn the factory on again and start producing hormones naturally. That I need to have a regular metabolism and be able to really function and thrive.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: And are you for sure that, you know, that this was all a result of the donations?
[00:28:38] Speaker B: No. I mean, it could, I suppose, be due to something else. I just. I can't imagine what else. And my doctor has gone through all of the tests, all of the blood tests, all of the scans, all of the. Everything. We can't find any reason for it other than the fact that I injected myself with foreign medications multiple times a day for several weeks at a time and went through these really dramatic hormone fluctuations during my donations. So it's not a clear cut. You know, you were an egg donor and you had ovarian torsion because your ovary, you know, got too big and flipped over. It's not like a clear cause and effect like that, but it's process of elimination. And there's absolutely. I'm 32, and there's absolutely no other reason and there's no family history for me to have this sort of very strange problem going on.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah, Absolutely. And who knows? I mean, unfortunately, there's no long term studies of the outcome of what can happen if you do IVF multiple times. If you're a donor or, or a surrogate or even the intended parent that's going through IVF themselves, there really is nothing long term.
Now granted, this didn't really come about until what, 50 some odd years ago, but we need to begin doing a lot more studies in this industry to find out what the long term effects of all of this is. Because nobody knows.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think back to, you know, the late 70s and even if they had just kept longitudinal anecdotal information on donors, we could start to see patterns emerge, we could start to see qualitative studies coming to light and things like that that could help us better inform donors. And that's the other thing is I didn't learn about any of this. I didn't hear about any other donors having, you know, cancer and just all sorts of issues until after I had finished several donations.
So it wasn't part of the informed consent process, which I think is, it's a bit of a gray area because nobody can say, hey, this donation process causes this the way that they can on, you know, cigarette packages and things like that.
But I do think there should be some sort of, hey, these sorts of cases have been reported. We don't know if it's related to egg donation and medications, but we need you to be aware of the potential effects of what you're about to do. And just having that truly informed consent process, I think is something that's lacking in the industry.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: And I don't know if it's only egg donation because again, when any woman is going through ivf, it's the same exact process. The difference is you're doing it on the behalf of someone else, they're doing it for themselves.
So, you know, they still have to take the medication, they still have to go through, unfortunately, all the ultrasounds and the retrieval and all of that. But I think it's as a whole that they definitely need to be beginning that research and follow through of, okay, you donated.
Now let's look at long term history in doing a track of all of the things, you know, I did a interview with Wendy Kramer from Donor Sibling Registry and she made such an important point that I didn't even realize. She said, when cattle or animals are brought into the world, obviously so that they can, you know, feed the population and all of that, everything is tracked. Yeah, they know every single one. They know who the parents Are. And not just cattle, even animals. I mean, even if, think about dogs. You know, if a dog is born, they know the mother, they know the father, they have things, the pedigree, all of that. And she's like. And the thing about it is, is it in the fertility industry is one place that you actually should be doing all of this tracking and nobody is.
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Is. Yeah, this is a industry that has a high potential for that and a lot of really valuable information can be gathered from that. But I think it also could lead to a slippery slope that a lot of people are either consciously or subconsciously afraid of, which is the epigenetic piece of it. And really the picking and choosing from the genetic pool and designing what the next generation could look like.
That part is where it's starts to get a little scary and where we have to really trust in the medical teams that are doing these sorts of procedures and helping intended parents select. Even egg donation aside, even the process of embryo donation where the intended parents are choosing an embryo to then implant for themselves. How do we know that those embryos are not being selected or suggested based on the genetic traits that they're carrying? And so it's one of those areas where, yes, we can get a lot of information and we could distill down a lot of great insights about what the fertility industry is doing to our bodies and the health of women who are donating and being surrogates and, and, you know, everyone involved. But also it could be a slippery slope to something a bit unsavory or nefarious.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely curious. Do you have any regrets?
[00:34:39] Speaker B: No, I, I really.
Well, I, I guess I'll say I don't have any regrets about being a donor. The few things that I kind of regret is not the speaking up about certain things that bothered me along the way. For example, there was one clinic that I worked with in Illinois that was donation number two.
And that was the one where they didn't talk to me. They, you know, left me in the exam room.
There was just some, some things that felt like a huge violation in terms of just me as a human. I mean, I felt like I was being treated like a gumball machine and I'm very non confrontational and I just kind of like to just go through the process and make it as smooth as possible for everyone involved. I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I do regret not saying something and not telling them that they made me feel worthless. They made me feel like I wasn't a human. I wasn't a person, I was just a machine that they were putting quarters into to get eggs out. And I guess I feel a strong sense of redemption in a sense, to get to be on your podcast and be able to talk about these things, because that's really the only way that things are going to change is if we talk about it.
[00:35:58] Speaker A: Yes. Because funny enough, that was my first experience of just feeling like I was cattle and feeling used and just like. It was just like, okay, you know, just do this. Get it out of the way so we can go ahead and take care of the intended parents who are our patients. It's like, well, guess what? I'm actually your patient, too.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: And I'm choosing to do this to help somebody else. And therefore, I should be owed the utmost respect in that I'm choosing to do this for one of your patients. So, yeah, I definitely get where you're coming from.
What would you tell intended parents who are considering egg donation?
[00:36:42] Speaker B: I would say if you're an intended parent, really try to open your mind to the possibility of having a relationship with your donor. If that idea scares you or if you feel threatened by another woman being in the mix of this, you know, process of bringing a child into being, work through that.
Find a way to work through what is making you feel like you shouldn't have a relationship with this person or that you can't just keep in touch. I mean, my.
I call him my donor daddies, the couple that I'm still close with. And we don't talk every day. We don't even talk every month. We talk maybe once every three or four months over email. It's nothing super invasive in either of our lives, but it. It makes so much difference.
And so to IPs, I would say figure out what you're afraid of with regard to having a relationship with your donor.
Find a way to work through that, and then find a way to treat your donor like the human that she is and have that relationship. Because everyone is going to benefit you, your child, and the donor.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Absolutely. So what would you tell donors or potential donors?
[00:37:57] Speaker B: Personally, I would say don't become a donor unless you really don't want children of your own.
And the reason I say that is because the vast majority of donors that I know have had some sort of problems either with their fertility or with their reproductive organs afterwards. For me, I think that's what makes it something that I don't regret, because I don't want to have children of my own. And so, yeah, I'm dealing with the Health consequences. But I, I feel like it's more of a challenge that I'm up against and I do feel like I can overcome it and I will heal from it. But if I wanted children in this process of me giving children essentially to ips and that being taken away from me, if that were my situation, I think I would feel devastated, I would feel a huge sense of regret, I would feel maybe even some resentment and anger towards the IPs that I donated to. And that's no way to live your life. So I think that's an important thing to consider. If you are going to be a donor, assume that there will be repercussions and make sure that you're okay with those repercussions and the fact that you might take away your reproductive abilities from yourself.
[00:39:25] Speaker A: And obviously every single situation is different because I also donated six times and didn't have, you know, nearly close to the complications that you had and then went on to have my son after I did my last donation and then went on to be a gestational surrogate three times after that and again didn't have any of those issues.
But I think it is a case by case situation. And I also feel that every person who is considering becoming a donor, that they need to do their due diligence, they need to research, they need to not just jump on the first thing they see because they see a dollar sign. They need to be, you know, asking proper questions of the fertility clinics they're going to donate to or the agency that they're going to donate to. And they need to understand, you know, what is going to be required of them, what is going to be expected of them. But they also need to be upfront to let people know of what they, the donor expects from the clinic or from the agency or from, you know, the intended parent or whatever. Because this is a two way street. This is not just, I just give to you because you're going to give me money and therefore for I need to just shut up and walk away.
There needs to be a lot more of that. And I think it's about time that we start educating the donors, not just saying, hey, can you come and become a donor for us? But okay, are you willing to be a donor? But let me really educate you on the entire process.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: The good, the bad and the ugly. Just like I told you when we first started speaking, say everything. The good, the bad and the ugly. Don't hold back. Because that, I think is what has been the disservice all along. In this industry is that we're not really laying out the big picture for everybody. And everybody needs to see the entire picture of what it really is to, you know, to be a donor, to be the recipient, parents to be. And then ultimately this child, this donor conceived child down the road and what their life is going to be like as well.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And building on that point, I think it's important for donors to realize, you know, the process, the current process as it stands, where donors apply to agencies and clinics, it makes us feel like, are we going to be chosen? Are we going to be chosen? And then once we are chosen, oh, well, they chose me. So I have to do everything that they say and I have to please them because they could just remove me from the system as quickly as they said yes to me. But really what I would recommend for any donors moving forward with the process is choose an agency that you feel like is going to be your advocate.
I didn't do that.
While ultimately I'm happy with my donations and I'm glad that I got to do it, I would say that neither of the agencies that I worked with at the time were advocates for me. And I think it's. It's something that the agencies have a responsibility and a unique power to advocate for everybody involved, to make the donors not feel like a piece of equipment. But if they're mistreated at a clinic, an agency can pick up the phone and say, hey, this is not okay. And since the agencies represent the IPs who are writing all the checks and the donors who are doing this gracious thing, the agencies have this amazing opportunity to really transform what's going wrong in the industry from that human experience quality.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Well, and then we also have to remember, too, there's where you can donate through an agency, but then you can donate directly to the fertility clinic and to the egg bank.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: And you really need to also realize that there's a difference. And where your voice will be heard loudest.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Depending on the program that you also select. So there's that part as well. So.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: Well, Ray, I thank you so much for your honesty. I thank you for being open to, you know, sharing your experiences with our listeners. And thank you for being on my show today.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. This is the first time I'm talking openly about me being a donor, and I am so grateful I got to do it on your show and really give voice to these things that a lot of people are experiencing and not talking about. So thank you.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Thank you.
Thank you so much for listening. If you found this episode helpful, please rate Fertility Cafe on your favorite listening platform and share this episode with anyone you think could benefit from hearing it.
Thank you so much for joining me today. Until next time, remember, love has no limits. Neither should parenthood.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: Sam.
