[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, it's Eloise.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: Quick heads up before this episode starts, what you're about to hear is from the Fertility Cafe archive. We're bringing some of our past conversations back because new listeners find this show every week, and these stories deserve to
[00:00:14] Speaker A: keep finding the people who need them.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: If you've heard this one before, give it another listen. Something always lands differently the second time, and if it's your first time, you're in the right place.
Okay, let's get into it.
[00:00:32] Speaker C: Whoever thought making a baby could be so hard? Luckily, the fertility journey isn't meant to be traveled alone. Eloise Drain has helped hundreds of people build and grow their families over the last 15 years, and she's ready to share her insider knowledge and expertise with you. So grab a seat and let's talk fertility and alternative family building in the Fertility Cafe.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Welcome to Fertility Cafe. I'm your host, Eloise Drainage. On today's episode, we're going to speak with Erin Jackson. Erin is the creator of We Are Donor Conceived, a resource center and website created in 2016 for donor conceived people around the globe. Erin is a freelance writer and a Donor Conceived rights Advocate. At age 35, she found out from her parents that she was conceived using donated sperm. Despite her best efforts, she did try to meet her biological father, however, was not successful as he was not interested in communicating with her. She did discover, however, she had a half brother. It was all a shocking experience and it inspired her to create the community and resource We Are Donor Conceived. Erin wanted other Donor Conceived people to benefit from the resources she had amassed in her own search. We Are Donor Conceived has a Facebook group and an Instagram channel showcasing Donor Conceived Children stories. It's also a place where Donor Conceived people can share their stories with each other and the general public to inspire greater understanding about the unique challenges Donor Conceived people experience.
We're going to talk with Erin about her own experience, talk about insights from a recent Donor Conceived Children survey, and discuss what ethical participation in the field of third party reproduction looks like.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Welcome, Erin. I am so excited to be speaking with you today.
[00:02:21] Speaker D: Oh, thanks. It's great to be here. I'm excited as well.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Awesome. So, like I said, it's exciting to have you on the podcast and although our listeners heard me tell a little bit about you already, would you share
[00:02:33] Speaker B: a bit about yourself?
[00:02:35] Speaker D: Sure. I'm a freelance journalist in San Diego. I moved here 10 years ago from the cold wilderness of Canada and I am living the dream, writing about food. And I organize charity events to lift up the local community through a nonprofit that I funded. And in addition to all of that, I somewhat accidentally founded the largest online community for donor conceived people when I was 36.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And that.
So that definitely brings us to so much to talk about with. We are donor conceived. But before I hop into it, I'm curious.
So before your mother telling you about the big news, did you have any suspicion or random hints which made you question the validity of your offered genetic history?
[00:03:30] Speaker D: I did. Yeah. There were a couple of times I asked my mom if I was adopted.
I think when I asked, it was more to get confirmation that I wasn't. I wouldn't say I had a strong feeling that I was. I just knew that that was a way that people created their family.
And looking around the kitchen table at my family, I could see my sister directly across the table, and I was looking at her blonde hair and blue eyes and thinking about how we look nothing alike and just kind of in my mind being confused about how I got there. Basically, the math of mom plus dad equals me didn't really add up.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Do you think had they not told you that you would have eventually figured it out or have done a DNA test or find out? Perhaps in an even more shocking way,
[00:04:24] Speaker D: I definitely would have taken a DNA test. When I took a 23andMe test, it was $200, and the price just kept going down. So I know at a certain point I would have said, oh, let's just do it for fun. It's kind of nerdy and cool to find out what you could find out from your spit. So. So there's absolutely no way I would have gone my whole life not figuring this out. And I'm really glad I found out the way I did, because while it was extremely shocking, I did have the support of my mom, and she told me in a loving way.
And it would have been a lot more disturbing to find out from a DNA test after she died or something like that. I think that's probably the worst case scenario.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Yes, most definitely. And, well, since you did the 23andMe test, obviously, I'm assuming after you found out about your situation, found out that you had a half brother, which I'm
[00:05:20] Speaker B: sure is big news, of course, that
[00:05:21] Speaker A: I want to talk about. But it also reported that you are
[00:05:24] Speaker B: of Ashkenazi Jewish descent, and I presume
[00:05:28] Speaker A: you didn't identify as a Jewish person previously. So what is it like to learn about these, you know, various aspects of your genetic identity that literally, you know, all your life, you know, at that point, you had no idea?
[00:05:43] Speaker D: Yeah, I definitely didn't suspect I had Jewish ancestry. That was one of the things that I was wondering about in the time that it took me to get my results back. And I did order a test the minute I hung up the phone with my mother after she told me the truth, because I realized I am missing a lot of medical information and I don't know where I come from. And I wanted to know whatever I could find out from that test.
So I remember working out at the gym in front of a big mirror and just staring at my face and thinking, what am I? Where does my face come from?
As someone who grew up in a really multicultural city in Toronto, I would have people ask me, are you Greek? Are you Italian? Are you Portuguese? Like, every ethnicity, really. And it kind of became this funny game. And I would report back to my mom, and she would always have a weird look on her face, but she was amused by it too.
So when the Jewish results came back, that actually had a lot of meaning for me because I grew up in a community that is predominantly Jewish. The friends I went to high school with were almost all Jewish. So I had a lot of familiarity with the culture, and I was surrounded by Jewish food and, you know, synagogues and stuff. So I did have a direct connection to that revelation. But it has been something that I struggle to integrate into my identity because I. I feel like I can't fully claim that because of the nature of my conception, because, you know, people, you know, it's. It's difficult to claim person who doesn't want anything to do with me as my biological father, and therefore difficult to claim the Jewish identity along with it. So my response has basically been to bake a lot of Jewish breads and eat them and eat my feelings.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: I love that.
And I love bread. So I totally. I totally get where you come in from. Like, that's my soft spot is bread and butter. Like, oh, my God. Yeah. Anyway, okay, digressed.
So, and I'm curious, you know, going through and finding this out. Obviously, it was clearly a shah, and I'm sure you probably went through every emotion that there is, but what was your experience like after, you know, you found out in what you really had to kind of walk through then to even get you to the creation of We Are Donor conceived?
[00:08:22] Speaker D: Well, when I first found out, it was a shock, but it also made perfect sense at the same time, which is kind of a weird feeling to experience.
I was excited. It was like a big mystery. It was an amazing plot twist. And as someone who is a reader and a writer, I really appreciated that that happened in my own life. I mean, talk about an exciting turn of events.
So. So when I took the DNA test and I discovered a half brother, that really changed the whole trajectory of my experience. And for a long time it became about me and him and the instant and powerful love I had for him, which was immediate and really took me off guard.
The fact that I could look at a photo of someone who was a stranger to me the day before and feel empty, intense connection to him that was like an intense platonic love was something I didn't even know was possible.
And that defined my experience being Donor Conceived. For a long time, it was the two of us. We were figuring things out in the background. My husband was piecing together my DNA results and trying to get to the identity of the donor. And at that time, I was not even mentally prepared to deal with that on my own. I. I felt like my brain was a pile of sand.
And it was. The first six months were basically a blur where I felt four or five different feelings at the same time. I was bursting into tears randomly. Tears of joy, mostly just sitting on the couch with tears rolling on my face, thinking about how amazing life is.
That was the beginning.
And We Are Donor Conceived the what started it all is going online and listening to other people's stories and realizing I'm one of many people who's having this experience. Even though it feels so unique and personal, it's actually somewhat universal among people who are created this way. And I thought it was important that people know what Donor Conceived people go through and what our reality is like, because it's a lot more complicated than the story the art industry tells.
And that's what led me to create We Are Donor Conceived.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: I'm curious what your initial intention was in creating the platform and if it has shifted at all from when you first started to now.
[00:10:55] Speaker D: Right. So my initial idea for the website was to have it be a resource center. So the next person who got this shocking news and is googling I'm a sperm donor baby or something could find all of the information that I found when I did that exact same thing. So there's a resource page that is full of links to documentaries, newspaper articles and research studies, etc. Etc.
That was the original purpose. Then I decided I should really be telling the stories of Donor Conceived people. So I have a handful of personal narratives on there and I decided I should create a Facebook group to share this content so people could find it in another way other than just randomly googling.
And my original intention for that Facebook group was purely to create and disseminate the web content.
And it ended up turning into this multinational, multi generational support group for donor conceived people all over the world. And I kind of just let that happen because that's what people needed. And so that's what it became.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think your primary goal as an advocate for donor conceived persons is?
[00:12:11] Speaker D: I want parents, donors, and people working in the art industry to center the needs of donor conceived people and really create practices that put our best interests first.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that I definitely agree with. And we're going to touch on that in a second.
But first, I wanted to talk about a survey that you created, which was designed to provide greater understanding about the feelings, perspective, and experiences of people conceived via donated gametes or sperm. And the survey attracted responses from people
[00:12:51] Speaker B: born in 15 different countries, including Australia,
[00:12:55] Speaker A: South Africa, Belgium, Norway, UK and then the majority of respondents from the US and Canada. Did anything surprise you about the results you received?
[00:13:06] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been doing the survey since 2016 annually. And each year the amount of people who respond has grown.
And some of the new questions I added to the survey this year really relate to anonymity and the effects that has on donor conceived people.
And one of the things I asked this past survey was whether people believe that anonymous donation agreements have harmed them personally. And 70% of people said yes.
And that it didn't surprise me, given listening to people talk in the Facebook group. But I really think that should be underlined in red. I mean, if you want proof that things need to change, there it is right there. The majority of donor conceived people believe that anonymous donor agreements should be abolished because they are essentially a human rights violation. We believe we have the right, just like anyone else, to know our genetic identity, and that includes knowing the identity of our biological parents and all of our siblings.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: And according to your survey of those raised by heterosexual parents, only 11% learned about their origin as a child.
What do you think about that? Especially where for the longest time, it really was predominantly the heterosexual parents that were utilizing either sperm donor or egg donors.
[00:14:47] Speaker D: Yeah. It goes to show you that a lot of people thought it was optional to disclose and that it was their choice and they could make that choice for their family.
And I think that's crazy. Knowing what I know now, knowing how important it is to know the truth for myself, I cannot believe that anyone would convince themselves that this is a secret they can keep. Because it means lying to your child for their entire life. You cannot not tell without lying.
And that has been the hardest thing, thing to deal with for me personally.
I felt betrayed by my mother and I love her more than anyone in the world.
That was the hardest part of my donor conceived journey, for lack of a better term.
So that has to change.
And the data also shows that since the 90s, the rates of being open with children who are conceived this way has improved. But I still think the majority of donor conceived people don't know.
And we welcome new people into the Facebook group every day who have found out the truth from DNA testing and they are all interested in learning more.
It's not a small fact about who they are. It's a big, life changing deal.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you know, so I've shared this with you previously. So I've been an egg donor six times. And this past October of 2020, I spoke to, or excuse me rather, the one of my intended parents shared with their daughter that she was donor conceived. And then in November, they reached out to me because it was a known donation. And so we kept in contact.
She reached out to me.
She, the intended mother reached out to me and was like, we've told her and she wants to speak to you.
And she told me too, when we ended up speaking that her thing was, I always knew something was different. I just couldn't really pinpoint what it was.
And yeah, and I just felt that
[00:17:03] Speaker B: there was something missing.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: And I saw that my mom and I were very different. I just didn't know.
And she's still an adolescent, so in her mind, I didn't know how to put all these pieces together, but I sensed something.
What was your experience?
[00:17:25] Speaker D: I felt like growing up that I was an alien unicorn from outer space and no one in my family was like me. And I was fine with that.
I was very secure in my weirdness and my uniqueness. And I went through life just thinking, okay, well, I'm one of a kind. And that's okay because I like being me.
I definitely felt there was something different about me. And finding out the truth was extremely validating because it told me I was right all along. That little voice in my head that was, you know, just. Just felt like something was off in a way I couldn't put into words was correct.
And that's been one of the best parts of the experience. Just validating my own intuition and trusting
[00:18:13] Speaker A: that, yeah, what would you say to the parents that are making these decisions and moving forward with working with a donor whether sperm or egg or even embryo donation, but are afraid to tell their children or don't even know when to start and how to start. What is your thoughts there?
[00:18:37] Speaker D: I think that this industry has a long history of fear and shame built into it, and that has led to really bad outcomes for donor conceived people. And any parent who's considering using a donor should probably seek therapy to address those concerns that you mentioned before.
They make a decision. Because if you're making a decision that's based on fear or anxiety or insecurity, it's probably not going to be in the best interest of the human being you create.
And if you listen to the voices of donor conceived people, you will hear very loudly that we support donation and requirements that are open from birth.
Open at 18 really translates into 18 years of anonymity, and that is a lifetime in the context of a donor conceived person.
So I would say, yeah, address your fears and go about creating a person in a way that centers their needs and their experience first. Yes.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: And going back to the industry professionals. So on your Twitter account, tweeted back in 2019 during an ASRM conference and you wrote, hey, ASRM 2019 attendees, here
[00:19:58] Speaker B: are a few things to consider from
[00:20:00] Speaker A: a donor conceived person. Disclosure is not optional.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Anonymity is dead.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: And that's a good thing.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Donors matter, siblings matter, and no one
[00:20:11] Speaker A: needs a hundred of them.
Donor conceived people are people.
So tell me about this tweet, because again, the industry does have a significant responsibility and impact on these decisions that are made.
[00:20:26] Speaker D: Right.
Thank you for quoting that. That was one of my favorite tweets of all time. Really. There is a sense among donor conceived people that the industry, like people in the industry, are responsible for acting ethically.
And that's actually a question that was on the latest survey, and I think something like 92% of people agreed with it. So I hope industry people who are listening know that we think this is your job. You have a responsibility to act in the best interests of the human beings that you create. And that includes everything that, that I mentioned in that tweet.
We need to have the right to know our genetic identity if we choose from day one. And we really need to know who our siblings are and to not have really more than 10 of them. And that's because we want to form, a lot of us want to form relationships with our siblings or at least know who they are. So we don't form relationships with them, if you know what I mean.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, in April of last year, During National Siblings Day, you have. You had said, quote, National Siblings Day has me thinking of all the donor conceived siblings. I have yet to meet with the biological father. We share big feelings on a rainy day. Glad the house is full of treats.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: End quote.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: What does it feel like to suspect that you have siblings out there who you do not yet know and maybe never will know?
[00:21:59] Speaker D: On the positive side, it's kind of exciting knowing that someone might enter my life at any moment. That's also really difficult to wrap my head around because it really is. Like, I could check my 23andMe results as soon as we finish this interview. There could be a new person there. And every time a new person shows up, I go through the same cycle of emotions. Every time, you know, you're afraid because you think, oh, crap, am I throwing a grenade into this person's life? Like, do they know their donor conceived? How are they going to take it?
How are they going to feel about me doing that and what comes next? There's just so many unknowns.
And, you know, if I think about it too much, I can go to a dark place. And it really feels dehumanizing because all of this was done on purpose to me without any thought of my emotional needs and all my siblings emotional needs. We really should have known each other from day one, from the moment we're born. And the complicated part about meeting new siblings, and this has happened every time. As much as there's excitement, there's also grief because you're aware of all the time you've lost.
And I'm 40. That's a lot of time lost. We missed out on so much in each other's lives. And so a lot of it is just trying to make up for lost time and knowing we never will.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you said anonymity is dead, and that is a good thing.
Would you share for people who may not know what that means, what it actually means, or what did you mean by it?
[00:23:41] Speaker D: Yeah, what I mean by that is commercial DNA tests have changed the game.
Those agreements that people sign and when they're donating eggs or when they're buying eggs are fairly inconsequential. If it says it's anonymous.
My husband was able to determine the name of my biological father through a. I think it was like a second cousin once removed match on 23andMe.
I think in the survey, I have some data about this, if you would just bear with me.
In the survey, there's a section called the widespread impact of DNA testing.
I wrote DNA testing has effectively ended any promise of donor anonymity. Among survey respondents, 78% said they have successfully identified their donor through DNA testing, sometimes with the aid of genetic genealogy and or search assistance.
And 9% learned the donor's identity from a sibling.
So as more people do these DNA tests, it'll be even easier for people to connect the dots.
Some people have taken a DNA test and been immediately matched with the donor. They're right there already, so they don't even have to look.
That's what I mean when anonymity, when I say anonymity is dead. You cannot be anonymous from your biological children in the age of commercial DNA testing. And I think that's a good thing because nobody should be.
I think everyone has a moral responsibility to make themselves known to the human beings that they bring to existence.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Yeah, because you shared the statistic that 70 to 90% of donor conceived people alive today are not aware of their biology.
[00:25:33] Speaker D: I don't know about that statistic. Did I say that?
It's so hard to say how many people don't know because you can't pull it. You can't poll people and ask them if they know something that they've never been told. But from all the research I've seen, and a lot of it's based on guesses, over 50%, which is pretty significant.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: Yes, yes, definitely.
And I know you published on your Instagram channel recently where you shared a graphic with the words, you can't be a sperm donor without also being a biological father. And that so gave me pause.
That definitely gave me pause. And really make you stop in your track and think about it.
Do you feel that when the business
[00:26:20] Speaker B: and medical institutions have purposely attempted to
[00:26:23] Speaker A: create this disconnect, perhaps to minimize the cognitive weight of their donations?
[00:26:29] Speaker D: Absolutely. I think the terminology the industry uses is intended to make their customers feel more comfortable.
And saying things like biological father definitely freaks out a lot of intended parents.
Although it doesn't have the same effect for donor conceived people. One of the things I asked in my survey was what word do you use to describe this person?
And the majority of people said biological father or biological parent. People do also use the word donor. Most people use more than one term. But to me, I mean, one of the things I did when I first discovered I was donor conceived was literally look up father in the dictionary.
Because I'm like, well, what is the dictionary definition of father? And there's two.
One is a male parent and the second one is a man who has begotten a child. So one Definition relates to the social role and one relates to the biological role.
So for donor conceived people, we usually use biological father to differentiate the donor from the man who raised us, if we were raised by a father.
And that, to me, that's a medical term.
It's accurate.
And as I like to say, I don't call him my sperm donor because he never gave me sperm, nor do I want any.
Sorry.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: I love that.
Well, but it's so true. Like, wow, that is so true.
[00:28:03] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: That is so true.
So as of right now, asrm, the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, does not currently require the disclosure of donor conception.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: They encourage it, but they conclude that
[00:28:19] Speaker A: it's a personal choice each patient must make for themselves. How do you feel about this guidance? I mean, like, are you appealing to ASRM for a more strongly worded standard of disclosure for donor conceived children or, I mean, what is your thoughts on that?
[00:28:35] Speaker D: I think that is terrible advice and will probably set up a lot of people to experience trauma.
People come into our group and they're adults and they are just finding this out about themselves. And there's a lot of feelings of betrayal for not being told. And there's, you know, people seek therapy as adults to deal with this fact.
And if you are told young, the likelihood that it will be experienced as a trauma is dramatically reduced. So the very best thing that parents of donor conceived children can do is tell them when they are actually children before the age of three so they can integrate it into their, you know, their identity. It becomes just what they've always known and there's no big reveal later in their life. It's really like adoption.
We understand now that you don't wait until someone's 18 to tell them they're adopted because it kind of uproots their entire sense of self and can be really difficult to adjust to. So I don't understand why the ASRM is saying that. I feel like it's kind of a cover your butt message that allows them to tell their patients that they have an option of disclosing. But every donor conceived person will tell you, no. This is important to me. This is something I need to know about myself.
And telling a child early allows them to decide what it means to them because that's ultimately how that narrative is formed. You have to give a person the option to interpret their own identity and integrate this information and go forward through their life.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And with you being a writer, you also published a wonderful magazine called We Are Donor Conceived. And I encourage our listeners to Check it out. You did an amazing job.
And you actually have a full page spread on finding a therapist and talking about mental health support for those working through this. And I kind of wanted to point out mental health support doesn't need to be. Wait until you're an adult and then get mental health support. You know, what do you think about, especially with parents who are hesitant about telling their children from, you know, maybe from when they're young up until they're adults, when they finally feel like, okay, I need to disclose it about seeking mental health support.
[00:31:07] Speaker D: I think that maybe if they, you know, if they tell their children young, they could seek mental health support together as a family and have it be sort of family therapy.
I think that would have been helpful in my case if I had the support of my parents to seek counseling and to actually participate in it as well. Because a lot of the times, like you said, parents are afraid to tell they have their own issues that they might benefit from. Speaking to someone about and doing it as a family when a child is young makes total sense to me.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: And going back to the companies who profit from the sale, quite honestly, of reproductive material in respect to the physical, mental, and emotional needs of the people they helped create, what would that recognition and respect look like specifically, from your perspective?
[00:32:07] Speaker D: Well, I think it starts with abolishing anonymous donor agreements and setting a limit on how many offspring each donor can produce.
And along with abolishing anonymity, there needs to be information sharing. From day one, donor conceived people need to know who their biological parent is and who their siblings are and where they live so that they can form the relationships that would best suit them. I don't know if that's a good enough answer.
It's hard for me to say. I mean, there's so much that needs to change.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Yes, it really is.
And I do agree. And like I said with me being a donor six times, my very first donation was anonymous. But my other subsequent donations were all open.
And to this day, I actually still have relationships with those other families.
And I definitely feel the importance of having that openness, especially again, you know, I just had it happen this past year with, you know, this donor baby that I always knew about, that my children also knew about. It's just that, you know, she wasn't aware of who I was.
You know, what would you say to
[00:33:28] Speaker B: someone who's considering becoming an egg or sperm donor?
[00:33:33] Speaker D: I would urge them to think about the needs of the person that they're creating, not just the intended parents that they're Helping. I think a lot of people have trouble thinking about this tiny little bit of biological material becoming a human being with their own questions and needs.
But if you're an egg donor or a sperm donor, you are essentially allowing someone else to raise your biological child in their family. And that child will be as genetically connected to you as the children you might have in a romantic partnership.
And that means that those children will want to know the children from your other donations. They will probably want to know you, and they might want to know the children you raise. The thought that the industry treats them like, I don't know, commodities upsets me as much as the fact that we're treated that way. So I really advocating for donors matter, donor siblings matter. Like I said in that tweet, it's all important. And yeah, donors need to know exactly what they're doing before they donate.
[00:34:46] Speaker A: Yes, yes, definitely before they donate. And it needs to be. And this is another area where the professionals in the industry need to do a better job in really informing them and providing them with information, as well as removing, just signing, going into a fertility clinic, doing a frozen egg cycle or frozen sperm cycle and leaving your tissue, signing consent forms, and then that's it. You'll never know anything else.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: And nor do they even give them
[00:35:18] Speaker A: information half the time.
[00:35:20] Speaker D: Right? Yeah, you just never know. And I think that's part of the problem because then for donors, the idea of a donor conceived child is like hypothetical and you can sort of forget about it because you'll never know.
So it's hard to, you know, it's hard to form an attachment to a person that might not even exist.
But for a donor conceived person, we know that person exists. That's a fact. We look at her face and we see features we don't recognize.
And, you know, it's very real for us.
[00:35:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
What do you think about nature versus nurture and that argument there, I guess, depending on each person's perspective, I think
[00:36:06] Speaker D: it's been presented as an argument, but it's always been both.
The parents who raise you have a huge influence, but the DNA that scrambled together before you're born determines so much about who you are.
The way I like to say it is, one way or another, my parents were going to have a second child, but without this specific donor, it wouldn't be me. And actually without that one individual sperm hitting a specific egg, I wouldn't exist. So so much of who we are is this like accident of science. I mean, I inherited a lot from my biological father. Even though he had no, you know, no impact in my upbringing. He didn't raise me. He didn't know I existed. But yet I inherited certain abilities from him. I think I got part of my intellect from him. My height, the way my face looks, my Jewish features. I mean, it's hard to say that, you know, the DNA doesn't matter because of course it does. It determines who we are.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: Do you think the familiar physical similarity one that it matters, but that it should also matter?
[00:37:25] Speaker D: I don't know how to answer that question.
I mean, it's powerful. When I saw a photo of my half brother from the same biological father, I looked at his face and I said, that's me as a boy. That's me wearing a hat. That is my face on your face. And it was undeniable, the attraction that I felt to him because I recognized him as part of me. And the same thing happened with every subsequent half sibling I've seen. Their faces look like home. They look like family.
And, you know, it doesn't make logical sense that I feel so connected to them. It makes emotional sense, and that's good enough for me.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: Yep. Yep.
And I know you said it before, but so you feel that knowing your true genetic history is really a fundamental human right?
[00:38:24] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Well, what advice would you give to parents, the professionals, the donors themselves?
Like, what do donor conceived people really want everybody else out there to know?
[00:38:47] Speaker D: I think anyone who's interested in learning more about what donor conceived people want them to know should check out the 2020 We Are donor conceived survey report. I actually asked those questions specifically. So I have little reports on what donors need to know, what parents need to know, and what art industry professionals need to know. And these are quotes from donor conceived people all over the world, ranging in age from 13 to 70.
So you can get a huge wealth of information just by reading that report and all of the attachments that go along with it.
And I would encourage them to buy a copy of the magazine that I created. I mean, it really does a good job of telling the stories of donor conceived people in their own words.
I think it could be eye opening and possibly mind blowing for a lot of people who haven't thought about what it's like to be donor conceived. I can tell you from my own perspective. I thought this was something I would get over in a couple of months, like a breakup, but it totally changed my whole life and my identity forever.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: Well, to learn more about we are donor conceived, visit the
[email protected] and and you can also find the information in our show notes.
Erin, thank you so much for talking with me today and very informative talk because like I said, you know, when I first became a donor that I didn't think long term and what that person who is eventually going to become a human being is going to want to know, need to know and have a right to know.
[00:40:27] Speaker D: Thanks for having me.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Well, there you have it. I hope you found this discussion helpful
[00:40:33] Speaker B: as you weigh your next steps. You can follow Fertility Cafe on its new Instagram and Facebook channel @FamilyInCeptions. If you haven't yet, go to your listening platform of choice and subscribe, rate and review this podcast. We'd also love you to share Fertility Cafe with friends and family members who would benefit from the information shared. Join us next week for another conversation on modern family building.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: Until next time, remember, love has no limits. Neither should parenthood.
[00:41:09] Speaker C: Thank you for joining us in the Fertility Cafe. Whether you're an intended parent, a woman considering egg donation, thinking of becoming a surrogate yourself, or a friend or family member of someone dealing with infertility, we're here to help. Visit our website, thefertilitycafe.com for resources on fertility, alternative, family building and making this journey your own.
