Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: When you're dreaming of becoming a parent but can't carry your own child, the emotions can be overwhelming. There's grief, fear, and uncertainty. And when surrogacy enters the picture, it's not just a medical process. It's a deeply personal journey that asks you to trust someone else with the most precious part of your life. Today we're diving into what it really means to become a parent through surrogacy. From the heartbreak of infertility to. To the moment you finally hold your baby in your arms, this is the emotional truth behind the intended parent experience.
Welcome to the Fertility Cafe, where we explore the beautiful complexity of modern family building.
I'm your host, Eloise Drain, and this is a space for honest conversations about surrogacy, egg donation, and the journey to parenthood. With expert insights and real stories, we're here to guide you through the medical, legal, and emotional aspects of third party family.
We believe that love has no limits, and neither should parenthood.
Welcome back to Fertility Cafe. I'm your host, Eloise Drain. Today we're exploring the emotional side of becoming a parent through surrogacy and what it takes to get there when the journey starts in heartbreak. Joining me is Ashley Hingston, the voice behind Rage Against Infertility on Instagram.
She's a fierce advocate, a truth teller, and now a proud mom who just celebrated her son's first birthday this year after completing her surrogacy journey with us here at family Inceptions. Ashley's story is raw, real, and one so many intended parents will recognize. We'll talk about grief of infertility, the complicated feelings that come with not carrying your own child, and how she learned to navigate her own emotions and without placing that weight on her surrogate. Let's get into it.
Ashley, thank you so much for being.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: Here and for your willingness to share your story with our listeners.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Good. So before we dive in, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family?
[00:02:16] Speaker C: Sure. My name is Ashley Hingstown, and I live with my family, my husband and our son, who is just over a year old in Florida. Outside of being a mom, I'm also a therapist. Love to talk about our journey and kind of educate people on the surrogacy process and on infertility.
I have an Instagram account called Rage Against Infertility, which I have been talking about our experiences through that for the last. Gosh, it's been like five years now.
And so that's Something I'm passionate about and do aside from all my normal life things.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah, being a new mom is. Can be a lot. Many intended parents come to surrogacy after experiencing infertility or medical conditions that obviously make pregnancy unsafe. What led you to consider surrogacy initially?
[00:03:16] Speaker C: So for us, it was really that we had tried everything else in order for us to get pregnant. You know, the short version of our journey is that we started trying to conceive. 2019 found out that I have polycystic ovarian syndrome, which was not a huge surprise to me. More of a surprise that it took so long. I was in my early 30s to be diagnosed with it.
So because I was not ovulating and having regular periods, I was going to need assistance in order to conceive. And then we found out about three cycles into doing medicated cycles with a drug called Femara, we found out that my husband has a male factor infertility. And in his case, it was just sperm quality rather than quantity. We kind of move through the process for the next year or so with medicated cycles and then IUI and did four IUIs.
We were fortunate to get pregnant on a medicated cycle, but it ended in a pretty early miscarriage. You know, we went into IUI and IUI wasn't working and then went into ivf.
And IVF turned out to be a longer journey than we were anticipating because basically what it all boiled down to was that we made really great quality embryos, but when we would transfer them to me, they would not implants.
So we have something called recurrent implantation failure. It's kind of a tough issue in the infertility community because there isn't one cause of that or cure for that or treatment for that. So after five frozen embryo transfers, to me, we decided to go ahead and do a final IVF round for the intention of using those embryos with a surrogate.
Because we felt that we had really explored in those five transfers a lot of different approaches. We had tried, like, immunological approaches to it to try to see if that would help. We had tried a lot of different things to get things to work with my body. And it was just fairly clear to us after that amount of time that it might not ever happen.
And surrogacy was kind of our last option that we were willing to consider as far as trying to have children.
And we feel fortunate that that was even an option we could consider because we know that that is not accessible to everyone.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: Right. And obviously, you know, you've endured all of this, and you now you have to work with the surrogate. What was your emotional reaction when surrogacy was suggested to you or something that you guys started talking about? Because now you. You've gone through all of this and you're trying to have this child, and now you have to kind of reframe your mind from. I'm not going to be able to carry. I'm going to have to trust someone I don't know to take the most precious thing in my entire life and have this child for me.
[00:06:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a very emotional decision.
And it was something that, when we initially talked about it, I had a difficult time with the idea. I was open to it, but I had always wanted to be pregnant. I had a lot of, you know, kind of dreams and visions about what that experience and what the experience of having a child would be like for me and for us as a couple. And. And then to realize that that part of becoming a parent was something that I was not going to have in a traditional sense.
There was definitely a grieving process there for me. And that's something that my husband. It actually took him a while to kind of come around to it because he was very opposed to the idea in the beginning of our child being carried by anybody else but me. It was just something he couldn't really get his head around, you know, kind of felt weird about. It wasn't until he said to me, I think it was probably after, like, our third or fourth failed transfer that he would be willing to consider it, that I kind of allowed myself to explore that more and also to kind of grieve what that was going to mean for me as a woman and as a potential parent. Somebody said to me once, like, you know, that they had had to go through the process of thinking about, do I want to be pregnant or do I want to be a mother?
And I think that's kind of the question that it came down to for me was, you know, if you want to be pregnant, that's probably not going to happen for you, but you can still be a parent.
Surrogacy was the way for us to. To do that. But it's definitely an emotional process getting there.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Once you made that mental shift, though, towards surrogacy, like, what was the next step?
[00:08:17] Speaker C: The next step for us was really figuring out, you know, how we wanted to go about this. And we knew that we wanted to use an agency.
And I was doing a lot of the legwork of talking to agencies and kind of Figuring out as I went, what I wanted to know, what was important to me, what we really wanted in a surrogate, what kind of experience we wanted to have.
So I kind of started thinking about all of those aspects of the journey, and I was thinking about that and planning for it while we were still in the final stages of trying to get me pregnant, because I knew that's where we would go next. And I think for me, I felt like I needed to do that work at the time that I did, because I felt that if I found out that our last transfer didn't work, I knew it was going to be really emotional.
And the thought of having to do all of that work and figure out all of those components of how to move on and to go into surrogacy, I felt like that was going to be too much for me if I didn't do it before we really needed it.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: So I know a lot of people, I think, you know, they wait until this is going to work. And so therefore, I don't want to jinx myself. I don't want to go into it. I don't want to look into any details, because if I do, then that is kind of solidifying that I'm going to have to go that route instead of. It's not that you have to go.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: That route, but it's just a preparation mode.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah, it was definitely a preparation mode for me. I felt that it would be more comfortable for me, and I guess, in a sense, easier for me if when my journey to. To get myself pregnant ended, I had another thing to move into versus coming to the end of that road and. And saying, what do we do now? Because it is such a big deal. I feel like as a. As a woman and somebody who just always wanted to have children, I've spent the last four years of my life trying to get pregnant, and now I'm finding out that is not going to happen for me, which is really devastating.
So it helped me a lot to know, okay, but this is what we're doing next, and, like, we're going to get through that. And that doesn't mean that I didn't have moments in my surrogacy journey where I went through grief or I was working through pieces of that, because I was.
But it definitely helped me to kind of think about it ahead of time and sort of resolve that, like, this is what we were going to do, and this was kind of the last thing we were going to try.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: And what made you choose, like, an agency versus maybe going independent?
[00:10:59] Speaker C: We did not feel that we had the knowledge and the experience to handle it ourselves.
We had looked at that and I do. I feel in social media that sometimes agencies don't get. Get the credit that they deserve or that it's more like some pages about surrogacy will promote going independent versus using an agency. I think both things could be good, but for us, we just felt like it was a better fit for people who were more experienced to help us handle that and help us match with someone.
It was really important to us that we had a surrogate who had been thoroughly vetted by people who were smarter than we were in that area. I think it felt more comfortable for us to have people who could take us through the process since it's something we had never done.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
And I know that obviously matching with the surrogate, sometimes it can be like the most anxiety inducing part of the process.
What was your matching experience like for us?
[00:12:04] Speaker C: I think I was very anxious to match. We were very fortunate that in the scheme of things, it didn't take as long as we were anticipating, but I was very anxious to match. And while we were waiting, I think I was just nervous that, like, what if somebody doesn't like us or what if we don't find the right person who can kind of align with where we see this going. I had really hoped that I would have a match with somebody who wanted to stay still, have some kind of relationship with us ongoing. I loved that idea. I'm a very family oriented person and, you know, just the way I was raised in the way my family is, it's like I knew that that person, I would feel like they were my family for forever just because of the nature of this journey and what they were doing for our family.
So I was really hoping for that, but knew that that may not happen for me. I was really dying to match with somebody. And my husband was like, it's only been, you know, however long it had been. And I said, no, it's been four years for me. I'm like, it's all part of the same journey. And I was like, I feel like I've been waiting forever for this person because all of this has apparently led to this moment of us taking this journey and it feels like it's already been so long. I was definitely anxious to meet with that person. And we got an email from the person working with us at Family Inceptions and they said, hey, can you, you know, give me a call or something? And I saw it at night and I was like, all night long. I was like, oh, my God, what is it? Like, does she have a match? Rob, do you think? I'm like, do you think it's a match? And he was like.
He's like, you're gonna have to talk to her tomorrow. And I was like, I can't even sleep because I want to find out what's.
What's going on. And she just kind of asked us how. Like, how do you feel about Mississippi? Rob and I are like, how do we feel about Mississippi? And we're like, okay. That wasn't what we initially had envisioned, but it wasn't far off because we live in Florida. And we were like, maybe like the Southeast or something.
And they said, would you consider this? And we said, yeah. And then we were like, okay, so are we going to match? And then it was still like another probably a month before we got a call saying, like. And I was like, this has to be like the call. And I was just on the edge of my seat and just hearing that we had somebody who was interested in us that wanted to meet us was so huge and exciting for us. So we were really excited about that.
[00:14:28] Speaker D: If you're in the process of building your family, whether you're starting ivf, thinking about egg donation, exploring surrogacy, or just trying to figure out what's even possible, there's an event I want you to know about. It's called the Family Blueprint, and it's happening September 27th in Atlanta. It's a one day in person experience hosted by Family Inceptions and powered by fertility360.
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Instead, this day is about giving you a clear map forward with answers, guidance, and real talk from fertility doctors, legal experts, mental health professionals, and parents who've actually lived this journey. You'll walk away with a deeper understanding of your options and real next steps and probably answers to questions you didn't even know you had. If you're looking for clarity, not clutter, this is your space. Head to fertility360.com Atlanta to learn more and reserve your spot.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: So how was that experience like, though? Because, I mean, obviously I know how match calls are, but sitting on that side of the chair, you know you're speaking to somebody who potentially, again, is going to carry the most precious thing to you in your entire life.
You. You don't know her from Adam.
And, you know, yes, there's, you know, someone from the agency that's the mediator and all of that. Like, how did you feel? Because personally, for me, my very first time in being a surrogate and meeting with my intended parents, like, I was nervous, I was anxious. Like, I'm like, my God, they're going to want to work with me.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Are they going to want to choose me?
[00:16:26] Speaker B: You know, am I going to be enough?
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a, that's a good way of saying it. I definitely wondered that if she would like us. And I kept wondering, like, should I feel something like, how do I know that this is the right person? Because I've described to people before that it kind of feels like the first parenting decision that you're ever going to make is choosing this person to carry your child and to trust with this experience.
And, you know, you're trusting based on, you know, meeting them and what, you know, the vibe you get from them and also the information that you're given by the agency that this is going to be the right kind of person to make decisions that are hopefully similar to the ones that, that you would make. Which is something I kind of, I learned about along the way. Because you realize that nobody is ever you. So you end up kind of. I think for me, I kind of ended up figuring out like, okay, it may not have been the decision I would have made, but it's still okay. Like, it's still something you can trust. It is really nerve wracking and exciting also, because it's exciting to be moving forward, but at the same time, definitely a huge decision as parents for us to trust this person. And I think for me on an emotional level, I felt like everything we had gone through at that point, I felt like we were bringing somebody else into that. And that's something I had to work through. Like in therapy was we're bringing somebody else into this mess. And I almost felt bad, like putting somebody else in this situation because I wasn't convinced that she wouldn't have the same issues that I had.
So I felt like, what if we're just bringing somebody else into this situation and they're going to go through everything that I've been going through for the last few years with ibs?
It was hard for me to believe that it could be different.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow, that's a great point.
So you're now matched. You get the process started. And how did that go?
[00:18:33] Speaker C: It went pretty well. We started medical clearance and everything went pretty well with that. We were just kind of waiting for like all the hormone levels to line up. The way the clinic Wanted them for a little while, but then once we had that and moved on to the legal process, which also felt so monumental, like signing all of that and having that notarized and making everything really real, that was a big moment for us, too.
Then we went ahead and got started with all the transfer prep. So it was really less than three months when I think about it. So it ended up being kind of quick for us. So In July of 2023, our clinic was actually out of state for me. So our surrogate and I flew to New York and that's the first time we met each other. And it was also the day before our frozen embryo transfer. So we moved pretty quickly into all the. All the big stuff of trying to get pregnant.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: And then obviously you got the phone call.
[00:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah, she was a lot braver than me and wanted to test early. She was wanting to test about five days after the embryo transfer. And I was like, you know, like, you could be pregnant, but it may not show up as anything. And I was worried about me being disappointed, but also about her feeling discouraged.
And she ended up calling me that morning and she was like, I'm really sorry, but I had to pee. And I already. I already took a test, like, without you, and just has me on FaceTime and shows me this, like, row of positive pregnancy tests. And I was just really blown away. It was mind blowing for me that, like, it actually worked and like, that it actually worked out that we were actually pregnant. It was kind of hard to process, I think, in the beginning. Also really exciting, and it was really special for me. I knew she was going to test early, but I did not tell my husband when she was going to test so that I could kind of have that surprise part of it, because that's something in the infertility process that kind of gets taken from you is like, you don't really get to surprise your partner or your family because everybody kind of knows what you're doing. But when my husband came home, I said, oh, I want to show you something. And I showed him pictures of the pregnancy test, and I said, this was from today. And he was like, oh, wow. And was.
Was really surprised and excited. And he said when he saw that, because the only other experience we had had with pregnancy was, you know, several years before that when I had gotten pregnant.
And he said he could already tell, like, such a difference between that and what those tests look like and this. And I think it made him feel a lot more confident that we were looking at something that could actually work out.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: And you mentioned family earlier. Did you guys share with your family early on about you working with the surrogate or did kind of just keep that quiet?
[00:21:29] Speaker C: We did. My family knew from the beginning because they knew what I was going through with our journey and everything.
They were very clued in because our. My mom helped us financially to. To afford surrogacy there. It wouldn't have been a possibility for us otherwise. So she was aware of what was going on. We ended up waiting a little bit to tell. We hadn't really told my husband's mother that we were going through infertility and treatments until we matched with our surrogate. And once we matched with her, we called her and basically said like the short version of what's been happening the last.
The last four years, and this is what we're going to do. And everybody was very supportive. We were very grateful that everybody was very supportive. Not everybody understood right away exactly what that meant, like if we were using a donor or what we were doing. I think there is still some confusion for, for some folks about, you know, is it the surrogate's biological child, like traditional surrogacy? So, you know, we had to clarify some things, but everybody was very supportive. So I was grateful for that.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: Are you in your rage against fertility group? You have been very open and honest about your experiences and even during the pregnancies, excited as you were about you have this pregnancy, it's to going going well. You know that at the end you're going to have this baby, but you were dealing with some emotional pieces within yourself. Can you share about that?
[00:23:04] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. It was surprising to me because there were things I expected would be hard and those things were probably less hard. And then there were things I never expected to be difficult for me. Like I thought it would be hard seeing our surrogate pregnant since that's something I had always wanted. But I actually loved it and always wanted to see pictures. And it was great to see her in person. The times that we were able to come visit her and go to appointments and all of that, and that part was fine.
I didn't expect to have a hard time. Like when she started having morning sickness, like she was super sick for a while. I felt terrible about it. I felt guilty because she's going through this on our behalf and that was really hard. And then I also sort of felt like it should be me, like I should be the person going through all of this. And my husband was saying, well, I'm glad it's not you. And I was like, but I'm not like, I. Like, I wish it were me, and I wish it weren't somebody else's issue that I was taking this on, but I can't. And that was emotional. It was also hard to physically not be with my child all the time. There were times I really missed him, and it was like, you know, even though he's not somebody I can hold yet, just not being with her and being close to the baby physically was tough.
So I had to find other ways that I felt like I could connect with the pregnancy. Working on his nursery was a big thing for me. We, like, painted it and put in new flooring and all of that. And I did, like, the painting and stuff all myself and did a lot of work myself. And that was kind of my way of connecting with my kid and connecting with this pregnancy and believing that it was really going to. To work out. So I had to kind of find other ways throughout the pregnancy to do that because it just wasn't, you know, especially since we weren't geographically in the same place, it's kind of hard to make that connection and feel like it's really happening when it's not in front of you.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Did you have a good relationship with your surrogate?
[00:25:05] Speaker C: We really did and still do. We're super fortunate in that regard. The two of us have a really strong relationship and have, you know, throughout the course of all of this, become really close friends. It was great during our journey because she was very communicative with us about everything that was going on. We went and visited her, you know, as many times as we could, attended appointments and did all of that, and just really tried to be supportive of her in all the ways that we could. And she was really great about just keeping us informed and keeping us included in all of it along the way. So we had a very, very positive relationship. And I tell people that I know that not every relationship is like ours, but I feel like what we have is what could happen if both parties really want that.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: How do you trust, though? How do you let go of that trust and then letting go of that trust, how do you not project anything that you're dealing with yourself onto this person? Not that you're intentionally doing it, perhaps either, but just even unintentionally projecting the emotions that you're going through on this person who is carrying your child for you and maybe even having a little.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: Bit of jealousy towards her.
[00:26:22] Speaker C: It's extremely hard because, like I was saying earlier, I realized when we were going through the process, I think I Went into it thinking, because we have a lot of like, similar qualities and have a positive relationship.
I kind of thought like, oh, she'll just do all the same things I would do. And then I realized that's not the case. And for some part of it, it's because a friend pointed out to me along the way, she said, for you, pregnancy would be such a big deal and I think you would be a lot, like super careful about it and, you know, maybe overly concerned about like your safety and the baby's safety and all these things.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: And.
[00:27:04] Speaker C: And for somebody who is a gestational carrier, like, pregnancy isn't as big of a deal because it's something that they can do well, which is why they're in this position. You just come at it from a different approach when it doesn't come naturally to you, like for infertility. So there would be times where she was like, oh, I'm kind of feeling under the weather. But she still had to go on with her life.
And I was just kind of like, oh, I think you should like stop everything.
Like stop everything and just like go lay down. Like, just go, go lay down and relax. And it's like, she can't do that. She's got two kids, she's got a full time job. Like she has this whole life. And I had to understand that we're taking different approaches to that, but that doesn't mean that her approach is not okay and that I had to respect that she knows her body and knows her own limitations.
I just had to trust, like, that she's doing that she's doing the right thing. And it's hard because it's not what I would do because I would probably be so anxious if I were pregnant after all these years to do certain things and should just like live my life like a normal person. But that's what most people do. Like people who don't have the issues that we had in the journey that we have, that is what they do. And they do it all the time and they're fine and their kids are fine. And I had to kind of learn to respect that. But that wasn't always easy for me. That was something that I tried really hard not to project onto her because I knew I was self aware enough, I guess, and I'm a therapist and I go to therapy, so I guess that helps.
I was self aware enough to be like, this is my issue, this is not a hurt issue. And also just kind of thinking along the way about, you know, ultimately our relationship and where I wanted it to go and was this particular issue worth it to make an issue of something like, is it really worth making a big issue of this particular thing at the end? This is what I want is for us to have this positive relationship and to trust each other.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: So do you think you created the boundaries or do you think it was kind of a mutual thing or was there any boundaries?
[00:29:10] Speaker C: I think I definitely put boundaries on myself to not project all that onto her. I had so much anxiety during that pregnancy and it just like, I didn't think she needed any additional stress.
And for me in general, the way I try to live my life is there are a lot of things like I think about, or I might have feelings about it, but I'm like, is it worth it? I kind of hold certain things back if I can handle them myself. And that way, when I do say something, you know, like, this is an issue, I'm not somebody who's going to like complain about it all the time.
So when I do say something, I feel like it carries more weight. So I just kind of tried to be like, you know, to try to put issues in perspective as they came up and not add any additional stress to her that I didn't have to, but to speak my mind when there was something, if there was something that I was legitimately concerned about that was worth talking about. And I also bounced stuff off of our journey manager too. At the time, there were times where I said, like, I'm freaking out about this, like, you know, is this.
And she would be like, you know, like, you know, she would kind of talk me off the ledge. And then there were times where she's like, yeah, I'm gonna talk to her and you know, mention that maybe she can go like, sit down and relax or something.
So that helped too. And I think that's why part of why having an agency was so great was just having that other person who could kind of see both sides of it and be like, hey, this really isn't worth risking the relationship over.
And oh, this, yeah, I'm gonna talk to her about that or I'm gonna say something.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: But the thing about it too is obviously going through this process is anxiety filled. I don't think that it would be unusual, uncommon. Quite honestly. I think it's very common that you would be full of anxiety. I mean, if I think about, you know, with my children and me saying, okay, here you go. You know, I have eight month old grandson now, right? And even though, no, I didn't give birth to him, but knowing that somebody was, you know, and obviously, and I have a great relationship with his mom, but knowing, like, she technically, she's carrying this child, for me, that's why I tell her all the time, I'm like.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: This was my child.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: My mother would say that too.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: And asking her, are you okay? Do you need anything?
[00:31:31] Speaker A: Because.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: And then me reminding myself, like, hold on, you can't do that to her. You know, you cannot. But at the same time, knowing all.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Of the things that I know and being in the space and being around.
[00:31:44] Speaker B: So many pregnant women and being around people who've had good stories and bad stories and all kinds of stuff, and even me having that anxiety, never mind someone who. This is your child that this person is carrying for, I would expect that you would have anxiety and it'd be okay to have anxiety. It's just how you said it's being able to know it and then being able to manage it so that you're not projecting it onto someone else.
[00:32:14] Speaker C: Yeah, that was definitely the major thing for me is, you know, dealing with that. The lack of control that you have, which I think is an issue for a lot of people with this, with surrogacy, is, you know, you do lose control over certain aspects of it. But if you have a positive relationship with your surrogate, you know, you do have a say in a lot of things.
But it is hard to not be able to control every aspect of it. And it's definitely very anxiety inducing. And, yeah, I think it's hard to get to this point in a fertility journey and not have all of that. You're bringing all of the trauma and all the things that you went through with you.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Let's talk about the day that Jackson was born and how was that experience?
[00:33:02] Speaker C: It was truly one of the most incredible experiences of my life. I tell people that all the time.
Obviously, yes, meeting my son, but it was such a privilege to be with our surrogate and watch her give birth. I tell everybody she was incredible. She was just amazing. Obviously, the first time I've gotten to attend a birth and she let me hold her hand, and I let her squeeze my hand as hard as she needed to when. When he was being delivered. But she was incredible. And it was just such an amazing experience to watch our son be born and then to, you know, to have him handed to me and get to hold him for the first time. And I just cried and cried and cried. Basically, all the pictures of that time are just me with, like, a big, big red nose and red face because I was just so overwhelmed. It was hard to believe that he was finally here.
There was a part of me, I think, that was kind of holding back all this time, like, just, what if something happens? And then to finally have him here and that it's. That he's okay and that he's. He's real and this really happened and we're really parents. It was definitely really overwhelming, but also really beautiful. And like, the first moments and period of time of me holding him, I honestly didn't know that anything else was going on around me except for. For that. I remember asking our surrogate afterward. I was like. I was like, did you deliver the placenta? Are you okay? Like, is everything fine? She's like, oh, yeah, all of already happened. And I'm like. I was. I was sitting right there, but I was just not. I missed all of that.
It was a really amazing moment to finally have our son here. And then my mom also came with us to Mississippi for his birth. So after we got to bring her in later on and have her meet her grandson, that was such a big thing for her because I'm her only child. So for her to meet her first grandchild was so huge. He's her favorite person.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: I totally understand because I was there when my grandson was born as well. And they have a picture of me, just me staring at him. I mean, I have my own children, and I've given birth for surrogacy as well. But this grandchild of mine and being there and just in awe of this child, that's my child, you know, and they always say that there's this different love for grandchildren.
And it's true. I'm attest to it. It's true. So he has me whipped, whatever and anything he wants. Absolutely. Questions asked, whatever. And he's only eight months, so can you only imagine.
Can you only imagine where this is gonna go? So what was your experience like now that you have finally finished having this baby, after everything you've endured, after all of the experiences? Everything is done. We're good to go. We're go have our baby at home and raise him, and everything's gonna be wonderful.
[00:36:10] Speaker C: It's very strange when it's kind of all done because we, you know, we worked for like five years toward that moment. And when it's all finally done, I remember, you know, we spent a little bit of time couple days in Mississippi after the birth, and we went to our surrogate's house for dinner. The night before we left, her husband cooked dinner for everybody, which is very Sweet. And we spent some time with them, and they got to spend time with the baby and their kids got to see the baby and all of that. When we left there, I got in the car and I could not stop crying. And I was just sobbing, leaving her. And my mom was like, do you need to go back? Like, are you okay?
And I couldn't imagine it. Just the idea of leaving her and leaving her family after all of this felt so overwhelming because we had just done this enormous thing together over the last year, and, you know, you build such an incredible relationship, you know, if that's something you want.
We were just. We just felt so connected to their family and still do. And they're. You know, we always tell them that they are our family.
So leaving them after all, that was so emotional for me, and I didn't expect that. Like, I didn't think. I think I kind of thought, like, I'd be like, oh, yes, like, let's go home or whatever. And I did want to go home, but leaving her was so hard. And I remember texting her and telling her that I was, like, losing it. And she was like, so was I. Like, as soon as you left, we were both just, like.
We had such a hard time. I think it took a little while for me to feel like he's. Like, he's really mine. This is really happening. And, like, even though you're going through all the stuff of having to take care of a newborn and being up all night and all of that, it was. It took a while for me, I think, for it to really click. And my husband kind of felt the same way. We were both like, can you believe we really have a baby? This really happened. Because I think you miss the pregnancy piece, which I would imagine for people, it's like you have this whole, you know, 40 weeks or what have you lead up to preparing for this child that we didn't have.
So it just kind of felt like even though we were expecting this kid and wanting this kid now, they just gave us this kid, and they were like, we just didn't have the whole lead up that a lot of other people have when they have kids. So I think for us, it was. It kind of took us a little bit of time to really, like, adjust to that mentally.
[00:38:40] Speaker B: You had mentioned about just even experiencing after he was born, he had, I think, swallowed some Marconium from the delivery.
[00:38:51] Speaker C: I think it was like, amniotic fluid or something.
[00:38:53] Speaker B: Amniotic fluid. And so he was sick. And then there was where you obviously were up sometimes. 24 hours and exhausted in all of the things. And you experienced some anxiety and depression after he was born. And I love the fact that you share that, because I feel like people don't realize.
One, you can have postpartum depression even if you didn't fully carry a child, and it can be male and female. But two, it is something that's real and it happens. And all of the things that you've been door doesn't just go away in two seconds because this baby's here. And then when you bring the baby home, there's now another human that you're responsible for while you're still trying to deal with all of the issues that you're also dealing with. And I feel like a lot of people just think, like, oh, once the baby's here, everything is done and it's going to be hunky dory.
[00:39:55] Speaker C: No, that was such a complicated thing for me. With infertility, I think it's easy to think that once I have my baby, it will all be fine.
I'll have my kid here, and then all of this goes away. Like, all of the. The pain that you have or that everything is great once you have your child and all of that. And maybe for some people, that's true. For me, you know, I'm somebody who has clinical depression, and my therapist and psychiatrist, we had all kind of talked about it ahead of time, and they were just aware that I was at a higher risk for having postpartum depression, even though I hadn't carried him. So we were aware that it could happen. But it really hit me very quickly after he was born, and I had so much guilt because I felt like I finally got what I wanted and what I've worked so hard for for so long. Why am I not happy? Like, why do I not feel happy? And I had a baby who ended up having, you know, severe acid reflux. And it took us a long time to really be taken seriously and get him the right treatment about that. So I have this kid who's miserable, and then I'm also feeling miserable. And it was really hard because I felt like I'm supposed to be happy. And am I just a terrible mom because I don't feel what I thought I was going to feel?
You know, people talk about, like, feeling, like, an instant connection to their kid. And I think for my husband and I, we were both like, okay, we know this is our kid. But, like, it just felt. It was such a weird, like, otherworldly kind of thing because we were never pregnant. So it was just like, okay, here's your child, and now you gotta, like, figure all this stuff out. I didn't feel everything that I thought I was gonna feel right away. I thought it was. You know, some people talk about after infertility, how healing it is to have your child, and all of that took me a while. It took me a while to really feel connected to my son, which is something that I think a lot of people are ashamed to say or scared to say. And I was, too. And it was really, you know, through, like, working with my therapist, working with my psychiatrist, making adjustments to medication, getting the help my son needed, seeing a gi. All of that stuff that over time, all of that changed. And I could feel that connection and that joy. And, you know, not every moment of being a parent is fun for anybody, but I could finally see, like, okay, I'm really glad we're here. Or I would just start having moments where I'd be crying and my husband be like, oh, my God, what is it now? Like, what happened now with this woman?
And I was like, no, I'm so.
I'm so happy because I would have these moments with him, just, like, simple stuff, like putting him to bed or things like that. And I still do, where I'm like, I can't believe we're here. I can't believe this happened. And I still feel that way. But it just took a long time to really feel, like, that joy and that connection. And now I have a kid who, like, does not like to leave me at all, and who is super attached to me, who I am super attached to.
And I talk about it because even though it was really hard for me to talk about at the time, and I felt a lot of shame and a lot of guilt around it, I think there are a lot of people out there who are going through that, and they feel like terrible parents. And it's like, you're not a terrible parent. This is really hard.
This is really hard. And if you have postpartum depression or you have. Or your kid has medical issues or whatever, it is, like, all your feelings are legitimate. And it's okay if you're not in love with the whole process of being a parent or, like, totally in love with your kid or whatever, every second of every day, it doesn't make you a bad person or a bad mom. There's a lot of pressure, I think. So it was really weird to go through that, especially after infertility, because it was just like, you should be grateful. But now I can appreciate all of that for what it was and kind of cut myself more slack. And I see what I have now with my son, and I'm like, you know, even though there's a part of me that, like, hesitates sometimes to. To share, like, hey, we didn't have this instant connection or it wasn't like this instant bond, I think it's important because I know there's other people out there like that. And I've had people reach out to me and say, I wish I had somebody say that kind of stuff to me when I was going through it, because it was also like that for me. And it doesn't mean you can't have that later or that you can't grow into that.
[00:44:29] Speaker B: Yes. Yes, 100%.
So you and a friend of yours, you guys have a support group. Would you mind sharing a bit about that?
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's on Thursday nights, and it's been going on for three years now. For folks who are going through infertility at any stage, you know, whether people are pursuing surrogacy or adoption or still going through ivf, whatever part of this works for them. And it's every Thursday night, 8 o' clock Eastern, and it's free to everybody. That was something that was really important to me because the cost of going through all this is so much that having to pay for support on top of that is just, you know, it's just too much. So that's something that goes on every week, is something I'm really passionate about because my friend and I have both, you know, gone through infertility. And my friend who hosts it also is still going through it and is still on her journey. And we've had so many people come through over the last three years, and, you know, people who've gotten pregnant, people who've moved on, and it's just nice to continually be able to meet people in the community and support them.
[00:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really awesome. So, final question. I mean, was there anything during your journey that you wish you could have changed or maybe you would have done differently?
[00:45:53] Speaker C: No, I don't think so. I was really happy with the way that everything turned out. And, you know, if anything, I wish that we could have maybe visited more or, you know, done things like that more often just to spend more time with. With our surrogate. But I really feel like we tried to make the most of that experience and enjoy it for what it was.
We actually all took pictures together while she was pregnant, which is one of my favorite things that we all did. And we still have photos from that in our house, and one of them is in Jackson's room because I want him to always, you know, to see who helped us bring him here and to kind of normalize his way of. Of coming into the world for him. So I really love how our journey turned out. I don't think I have any regrets about anything. I mean, if I could go back, I wish I could tell myself, like, it'll all be okay. Just, like, don't worry about the small things.
[00:46:48] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:46:49] Speaker C: It was wonderful.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's going to happen exactly how it's supposed to happen.
[00:46:54] Speaker C: Yes, Very true.
[00:46:56] Speaker B: Well, Ashley, I really appreciate you coming on. I know we've been trying to connect for a while to do this, so I really appreciate you taking the time and I really appreciate your honesty and candor about the whole experience because so many, they make it seem like, oh, it's so wonderful. And after the baby comes and it's just, you know, world is amazing, which it is. It is amazing, but another piece of the reality that I think that people need to hear.
[00:47:30] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you so much, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about it. I think it's really important that people hear about different perspectives and sometimes very honest perspectives about it.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
[00:47:43] Speaker A: And so for any listeners who would.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: Love to get in touch with you, how should they?
[00:47:48] Speaker C: Yes. So I'm on Instagram at Rage against infertility. So rage underscore against underscore infertility. And you can always message me on there. And I have a link in my bio to the Thursday night support groups if you ever want to join us.
[00:48:06] Speaker B: All right, well, awesome. Thank you so much, Ashley.
[00:48:08] Speaker C: Thank you, Eloise. It was so nice meeting you.
[00:48:11] Speaker A: To all our listeners, if you're considering surrogacy or walking through it now, I hope Ashley's story gave you a little light, a little clarity, and maybe even a little peace. Your emotions are valid. Your path is your own. And yes, it's possible to come out the other side, not just with the baby, but with the new sense of strength and purpose. If you found today's episode helpful, please subscribe and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Until next time, remember, love has no limits. Neither should parenthood. Thank you for joining us at the Fertility Cafe. If you found value in today's episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with someone who might benefit from this information.
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