Ep 107 Should I Become a Surrogate? Why and Why Not?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: The decision to become a surrogate is life changing, not just for the intended parents, but for the surrogate and her family. It's a journey that requires careful considerations of medical, emotional and practical factors. Welcome to the Fertility Cafe where we explore the beautiful complexity of modern family building. I'm your host Eloise Drain and this is a space for honest conversations about surrogacy, egg donation and the journey to parenthood. With expert insights and real stor, we're here to guide you through the medical, legal and emotional aspects of third party family building. [00:00:38] Speaker B: We believe that love has no limits. [00:00:40] Speaker A: And neither should parenthood. I'm your host Eloise Drain and today we're exploring a question many women Should I become a surrogate? Today's guest is Janelle Sim, a vital member of our Family Inceptions team and and an experienced surrogate herself. With the background in recruitment and personal experience as both a three time egg donor and surrogate, Janelle brings unique insights from both professional and personal perspectives. In this episode, we'll explore the key considerations before becoming a surrogate, what the journey really entails and how to know if it's the right path for you. Whether you're contemplating surrogacy or just want to understand the process better, today's conversation will provide valuable insights. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Thank you, Janelle for joining me. [00:01:33] Speaker A: I appreciate it. [00:01:35] Speaker C: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. [00:01:37] Speaker B: So I'd love to hear your story and what drew you to becoming a surrogate and what was that moment like when you first like seriously started considering it? [00:01:48] Speaker C: Ed and I, my husband had talked about becoming foster parents and so we lived in Minnesota for a while. When we were in Minnesota, we went through the whole process of going through the education and the classes and the background checks and the home visits to get approved to be foster parents. Specifically for pregnant moms or teen moms that didn't have a place to go. And that was just something that was super close to my heart. I just felt really called to do that. In the midst of getting that approval, we moved to Colorado and what I didn't know is that kind of restarts the whole process. So even though we were going through the same organization, we were going to have to start from scratch to become foster parents again. So we decided to take a pause from that and let our kids kind of get used to being in new school, new friends, new routine, all of that before we introduced a foster child into the home. So one night we were just sitting on the couch and I have been a three time egg donor, so I was familiar ish with the fertility space. Um, and we were just sitting on the couch, and for some reason, I thought, you know, what if I was a surrogate? And he was like, you don't have to do something. Like, we can just, like, sit. We can be settled. We can just do our thing. And I was like, well, let me just look into this and see. And in his words, he'll tell you that that means, like, we're pretty much already going to do this when I say I'll look into something. So I started researching the process, and what does this actually mean and what would it look like for us? Shared the information with him, and then within a couple of months of kind of starting the research, he was 100% on board and was like, okay, this actually could be really cool to be able to do this for someone else. And I think I'm on board with this. So then we move forward with the process. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Ah. I know many people might wonder, like, what makes someone choose to carry a baby for another family? It's like, one thing to say I'm willing to be a foster parent, and then a whole shift to saying, I'm going to carry a baby for somebody else. I mean, it's two very different things. So what was going through your mind? [00:03:59] Speaker C: I think I was blessed with really healthy pregnancies. And I love being a mom. Ever since I was a little kid, I always wanted to be a mom. Like, that was my greatest calling, my biggest blessing. And even to this day, like, I'm just so, so thankful for the experiences of being able to be a parent to these little kiddos. And obviously, there are a lot of families that struggle whatever their family journey looks like, to get to that point of being able to experience that. And so the thought that we can somehow contribute, be a part of, help, support, whatever that looks like, that to me is the greatest gift that you could possibly give someone. And in return, we get blessed by it as well, because then we get to see this family that they've been yearning for for however long kind of come to fruition and be a part of that journey to help them make their family dreams come true. And so, yes, fostering and carrying a child, two very different things. But at the end of the day, it's about building this family and supporting this journey, whatever that looks like, and however I can be a part of that. [00:05:07] Speaker B: And the thing too is, you know, I mean, we both know, because obviously I've been a surrogate three times as well, so it's a big ask. Like, it is a Humongous ask to, you know, to become a surrogate. And normally, you know, well, I don't want to say that someone isn't just randomly going and asking somebody to be their surrogate, but like you, it wasn't that somebody asked you. You chose it out of your own fruition and decided that this was something that you wanted to choose to do. And I'm bringing this up because, you know, I've unfortunately. Was it last year or the year before where the pope came out and was like, you know, surrogacy, exploiting women and we're taking advantage of women and so on and so forth. [00:06:04] Speaker A: And when I first became a surrogate. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Get, no, granted, this is dating me, but 2000, it started what, 2007 time frame. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Ish. I was an educated woman. [00:06:16] Speaker B: I already worked, I had a career, I had my own children, I had my own husband, I had my own life, I had an mba. It was like, I'm making these informed decisions because I want to, not because I'm being coerced, not because it's whatever. What would you say to that? [00:06:33] Speaker C: Oh, good question. In our country, we are blessed that this is an option for families. And so when I think about, yes, people being coerced or you know, there's just such a lack or the thought that people are being coerced into doing this, there's just so much education that needs to be done around what it actually means to be a surrogate. And I think even from my own experience, my friends all on board, my husband all on board, like I think at where I was at in terms of like my day to day social peer group, everyone was like so supportive and oh my goodness, this will be great and it'll be fun, it'll be great and what, how cool is it? But when I think about even the conversations I had to have with my parents, even with my mom, like having some educational experience because in her mind she heard surrogate and has grown up in the church and is this playing God? What does this actually mean? So we had to have those conversations, which are not easy conversations to have, but it's important to be able to help them understand, you know, help her understand where I'm coming from. And then also in her mind she's thinking, you're giving away my grandbabies. What do you mean you're going to carry a baby and then you're going to give it away? Like that should be my grandchildren. So a lot of it is too, like, no, no, no, no. This is not like I Am not related. I am an oven. And we use that a lot when we explained it to our kiddos too, is I am, I am cooking this baby. Like I am going to take care of and hold this child, but in no way am I related to this child because there are different types of surrogacy. And so the one that I am choosing to do is one where I am not related to this child and I am going to give them back to their family after they're cooked and ready to go. And so even with her, it's been a journey, especially in the first one kind of educating her along and then doing it a second time, and two, with the risks. Right. Like her thinking, hey, what are the risks involved for my daughter? And then for Ed and I to think through, okay, what are the risks involved for us? And is this something we're willing to take on? So being educated, I think helps a lot. And I just think there's so much more that we can do in that space to help. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:51] Speaker C: Not just surrogates understand what it means, but the support system and the world around them of what it means to go on this journey. [00:09:00] Speaker B: And I love that you say that because that, I mean, even for myself with my mom, who's also religious, and when I first shared with her that I wanted to be a surrogate, I mean, she was like beside herself and again, having to educate. And that for me again was 2007 time frame. And here we are in 2025 and we're still having conversations and we have some of the most influential people in this world telling people like, we're taking advantage of women and we're where doing all of these things. And it's like that could be the. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Furthest from the truth. [00:09:47] Speaker B: Right, Right. And I am going to bring in faith and, and all of that in a minute because that definitely is a conversation that I want us to talk about. And looking back at your first journey, what caught you completely off guard, either in a, in a good way or a challenging way? [00:10:04] Speaker C: Going into it, Ed and I had talked about, what do we want this relationship to look like? What will the relationship look like with the intended parents? And so I think what caught us off guard was we went into it thinking, yes, hopefully we have some type of relationship or hopefully we have a communication with the intended parents. And now that we're on this side of that first journey, the relationship that we've built with this family is they are some of our best friends. And we just felt so like the journey itself was amazing. And loved it, and it was wonderful. Obviously, I'm doing it a second time, so it was good. But now the friendship that we've built off of this and to get, like, picture updates and to see this little baby with his big sister and their family and, like, the impact that now they have and the family that they've created, it's absolutely incredible to look back and feel like, oh, my goodness, we have these best friends that we have for the rest of our lives because of this journey that we went on together. And we went into it thinking, maybe we'll get a Christmas card every now and then. Maybe we'll get. And just naturally, over the course of the journey, it's flourished into this incredible friendship. [00:11:16] Speaker B: And something that just happened organically, it wasn't forced. [00:11:19] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Which is the most amazing thing. And I think we both said at. During the match call, like, organically is I think, the word that we use. Like, if it turns into that, great. But no pressure on either side to make you feel like that's what we have to get to. And it just naturally happened. [00:11:37] Speaker B: So, yeah. [00:11:38] Speaker C: Yeah. Pretty awesome. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Now, going back to your family, you know, obviously, I know about your mom's reaction and obviously for Ed, but what about your kids? [00:11:48] Speaker C: Yes. So, actually, I have to give kudos to Ed for how we explained it to the kids, because in my mind, I was thinking through, like, okay, how medically do you explain this? And he's like, no, we're not gonna, like, get into the nitty gritty of what this actually means medically for these children that have no ide. Right. They're little kiddos. They were all under 10 at the time. So we sat them down for dinner one night, and we told them at this point, we had gone through the transfer. So because they were so little, we didn't want to bring them into the journey until we knew, kind of in that safe zone. Right. Like we were to a place where this is hopefully going to continue to move in the right direction a little different than the second time around. But for the first time, that's how we wanted to handle it. So we sat them down for dinner. Ed took the reins, and he kind of explained it as our neighbors, who we love. We use their names, but they wanted to cook pie, and their oven was broken, and so they had all the ingredients, and they were able to make this pie, but they had nowhere to cook it. And so they asked us if they could borrow our oven. They brought the pie over to us, used our oven to cook the pie, and when it was ready, we gave the pie back to them and they enjoyed it. So none of the ingredients came from our house. They used their pie plate. They used everything from their house. They just use our oven. And so that's what mommy is going to do for another family because they, you know, for whatever reason they can't bake their own pie. And so mommy's gonna help them do that. So I think that helped them kind of understand like, oh, okay, that's kind of cool. [00:13:22] Speaker B: I love that. [00:13:23] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, yeah. So kudos to him for coming up with that. It really helped the conversation. Um, so my oldest said, oh, thank goodness because we're a blended family of seven. So she was like, thank goodness we do not need any more babies. So I'm giving it away. My son said, that's really cool. But also I don't have homework tonight. So his brain was like in this, like, okay, cool, but let's talk about my homework. [00:13:49] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:13:50] Speaker C: And then priorities. Right. And my youngest, so at this point we're like maybe 8ish weeks. My youngest like reaches over and grabs my belly and she's like, I can already see the bump. I'm like, oh, thank you for that. But also then she was like, and I also get to see the baby because she loves to. She is definitely the baby of the family. So they all had very different reactions, but all were like, okay, I think we understand it age appropriately and we're on board. Like, let's do this. [00:14:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a, that's a great analogy. I did use the oven thing too. Although when I was a first time surrogate I had my older kids but then I had my youngest one and so similar. You know, sometimes mommy's bellies are broken and this person's belly is broken and mine is not. And so because mine is not, we're just, I'm going to allow her to use my belly so that we can have the baby for them and then give them back. And his whole thing was like, he was glad they were going back because he wanted to remain the babies and he is, he's still, he's now my 18 year old baby. [00:14:56] Speaker C: So yes, you got to say the baby. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Right, right. What was it like balancing though everyday life while being a surrogate? [00:15:04] Speaker C: It didn't impact our day to day routine much at all. So yes, there are doctor's appointments, but once you're to the point of actually, you know, carrying the child, just typical pregnancy appointments. So it wasn't like anything that was completely out of the routine. I think I'm fortunate enough that, yes, you understood what I'm going through as an employer. Right. And so there's the flexibility of your job. But I do think that's important, too, to bring your employer into the conversation so they understand, like, hey, there's potential for me to be out, in and out. If you're working in and out for, you know, appointments or whatnot, what that could look like. And then the closer you get to delivery, that there is a little more. Right. So, like, two times a week, going to the doctor, if more. Audrey, my oldest, is the one that was like, can you stop going to the doctor, please? Because you're there all the time. So for her, she was more annoyed by it than anything else, even though it really didn't impact her because she was at school. But I think just knowing that, yes, the closer you get to delivery, there is a time commitment around going to the doctor a lot more. So, like, the beginning with all the monitoring and the things that you need to do, time commitment, middle is kind of the easy part, I feel like, where you're just kind of going along with, go with the flow and you're pregnant. And some days I'd wake up and be like, oh, that's right, I'm pregnant. Because we're not getting a nursery ready. We're not picking names. We're not, like, doing all the things. So normally when you're carrying your own child, your mind is consumed with all those other things of prepping for this child. And when you're caring for someone else, you just kind of get to enjoy the ride without doing all of those things. Yeah. And then do more of the time commitment at the end with the. [00:16:46] Speaker B: And the sleepless nights at the end. [00:16:48] Speaker C: Right, Exactly. [00:16:50] Speaker B: Yeah. When. So with your first experience, especially, you know, with all the appointments and stuff, like you're talking about, how was your first experience as far as, like, the initial steps? Going about finding an agency, going about, then you find your agency, and then you have to, like, go through the medical screening and. And then how did you figure out, like, well, who should I work with? Is this going to be a parents, you know, couple match for me and all of that? How was that for you? [00:17:21] Speaker C: I think it's funny, I was talking with Ed about doing this podcast with you, and, like, what are the things that stood out to him? And how would he, you know, talk through different things that we've gone through with our surrogacy journey? And I think he said the thing that he would think through the most is just being patient in that early, in those early days. And I think that is like, very important for surrogates to think through because, yes, I did research and I reached out to agencies and talked through and the thing I was looking for most was someone that would communicate and support me through this process because obviously I had never done it before. So I really wanted someone that would walk hip to hip. Not that I'll be super needy, but I don't know what's going to happen. And so just someone that's there that can help support through the process. And also coming into it with a clear vision of who do we want to carry for, what are our things that we're looking for. And allowing an agency that will let a surrogate have her voice too is really important. I think we talk a lot about, like, the intended parents and who they want to carry their child. But as a surrogate, who do you want to carry for too? And that's just as important. And so coming to the table with, okay, these are the things that are really important to me. And then being willing to be patient in the matching process and not, you know, you come to the table and you're like, okay, I'm ready to go. Let's get matched. And it may not happen immediately because you want to find that perfect match so that hopefully it's a beautiful journey and everything works out wonderful in the end. So I think being patient on the front end, as you're researching, then as you go through medical screening, knowing that, you know, every step takes a little bit more time. So it's not that you're going to fill out the application and then, okay, great, let's find you a match. You still have a few months before you're going to get to that point. So really understanding that it's a bit of a waiting game to get you pregnant. But it also goes by really fast because before you know it, like now in my second journey, I'm like, oh, I'm going to deliver in 10 weeks. So. And it just, it seems to go by fast. But there are pieces that may seem like they're dragging, but it's to create this really healthy, safe journey for you and the intended parents. And that's why you go through each step of the process. [00:19:32] Speaker B: What, what would you say would make someone say, okay, I'm ready to be a surrogate? Or you started thinking about it like you, you obviously did, you started thinking about it and then it's like, okay, I've thought about it and I'm ready to pull the trigger now. [00:19:49] Speaker C: What if you feel like, as a surrogate and me coming into this, that one, you have healthy pregnancies and you feel like, yes, I'm able to do this for somebody else. Right. Like, I enjoy being pregnant and I'm in a good place where, yep, I can do this for somebody else. You've done your research and you feel like you have enough knowledge about. You don't need to know the ins and outs. There's no way you can research and know everything about what to expect. That's part of why an agency is really helpful, because they can help you with that. But having enough knowledge to say, okay, I'm aware of some of the risks, I'm aware of the reward, and I'm aware of my why, like, why do I want to do this? And I have a good support system, then I think you're at the point where, okay, let's dip our toes in, like, let's start an application, let's reach out to an agency, figure out what this could potentially look like for me once you kind of have those bases covered. [00:20:45] Speaker B: And then obviously being prepared to know, like, I will have to take time to go to medical screening, I will have to do psychological evaluations, I will have to do background checks. I will have to get all of those things done. And, and then I will have to be willing to commit to these intended parents because I think sometimes people don't really think about the responsibility that it is to be a surrogate. It's not just, hey, yeah, great, I'm willing to carry a pregnancy for you, and I'm willing to, to do this for you, but it is a huge responsibility to take on somebody else's child. I mean, can you imagine if I went and took, you know, one of your kids right now, and you didn't know me from a hole in a wall? And you're telling me, or I'm telling you, girl, let me. Let me just. I'm going to keep your baby for the next nine months. Pick whichever one you want me to hold, and I'll. I'll take care of them for the next nine months. And you can't tell me what to do. You can't tell me where to go, you can't tell me what to eat. You can't tell me anything. [00:21:51] Speaker A: You just have to trust me. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Me, then I'm going to give you back your child healthy and whole and like that not be, you know, a big responsibility. [00:22:02] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, it's huge, I think. And I jokingly say this, but I truly think so. Like, I obviously was very careful when I was pregnant with my kids. Right. My three pregnancies. I followed all the rules. I did all the things. I went to the appointments, did everything. But I feel like if I could potentially be more careful, I'm more careful even as a surrogate, because it is a huge weight that you are every day. All the decisions you make are for the health of this baby that you're carrying that belongs to somebody else. And when you deliver that child and give them over to their family, you want to be able to feel like I did everything I could to make this possible for this family. And so, yeah, so while I. I probably treat all my pregnancies the same. Yes. But I do say jokingly, like, I am more careful with this. Like, nope, I cannot touch that box. Nope, I'm not going to lift that. No, I'm not going to paint that room. Or no. Like, things that maybe when I was with my own kids, I, like, move something around or do something, and. But now, like, it's just. It's not worth it. And so you do feel the weight of the responsibility in a really good way, but also a very heavy way of, like, okay, I need to make good decisions all day, every day so that this is a healthy place for this child and this family. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Building on a relationship with the intended parents, which is obviously a unique experience. And you, you know, kind of already shared how your first set of intended parents. Like, you guys are, like, so close now. I know that it evolved organically, but sometimes there are parents that don't want to have a relationship, or sometimes they're surrogates that don't want to have a relationship. You know, you're one of. And I would say, actually there's a lot of intended parents and surrogates that continue on having a relationship long term. My three journeys. I have relationships with two of my intended parents, but I don't have a relationship with one of my intended parents. You know, how. What would you tell a surrogate that wants a relationship and the parents don't? Or vice versa, or. Or again, it's just organic in talking. [00:24:15] Speaker C: With a lot of surrogates every day. I think surrogates come to the table sometimes and feel like they're supposed to answer something in a certain way. Or, like, they'll say things like, I feel bad if I say this, but this is what I want, or this is, you know, maybe I feel guilty if I say I don't want a relationship, or I feel guilty if I say it's okay to disconnect after. And so I think first, as surrogates, we need to take that, like, pressure off of ourselves. There's no right or wrong way to do this journey. Every single journey looks completely different. And so when I'm talking to surrogates and they start by saying, I don't know, I'm like, no, no, no, you get the right to have your opinion, to voice what you want out of this, what you want it to look like. And that is the beauty of why we spend so much time on your preferences, on intended parent preferences, on the whole matching piece, because everybody is different. And so while for me, having a relationship at the end was something that if it organically happened, would be great, also at the end of the day, if that hadn't happened, we were prepared to say we gave them this child, which was the ultimate goal. The whole idea is you get to the end and I'm healthy and baby's healthy and they have their family. And so as long as you feel comfortable knowing that whatever happens during the journey in terms of a relationship, what you want, what they want, you're all on the same team. And the goal is to get this child here safely and give them to their family, then whatever happens from their relationship wise is okay. And whether that's the intended parents saying, great, we'll send you a Christmas card once a year. Thank you so much for giving us. Like, it doesn't make them any less appreciative of what you've done. Right. It doesn't make you less of a surrogate if you're like, no, I'm okay just handing the baby and never talking to them, like, that's totally fine. And so I think that's the beauty of this is being able to accept what you want, what they want, and then being okay to be adaptable and flexible because every journey will look different. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I want to bring up faith because, I mean, obviously I know where both of us stand as far as our faith is concerned. And, you know, for the both of us, our faith is very important to us and the first and foremost thing of our lives. And not to say that all surrogates need to have faith and many people don't, and that's totally okay. Or be believers as we are. I want to ask you how your, your faith and being a believer impacted your decision one, to be a surrogate and your decision to, you know, even be okay with it. Because, like, the Pope says that it, you know, it's against religion and it's against, you know, a God. And I'm just like, that couldn't be further from the truth because let's be real, if we're talking about Christianity, in the Bible it says that we are created in the most secret place. And even if man can put an embryo into a uterus, at the end of the day my belief is that we are still created, that embryo still has to be created in a secret place, that only God can do it. So I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on that. [00:27:32] Speaker C: So when I decided to be a surrogate, we live next door to neighbors that are very religious, very Christian. He's actually a pretty well known Christian author. Um, and they are very sweet and very supportive. But when they heard I was going to be a surrogate, their reaction was let me know if you want to come over and we'll talk about why surrogacy is not in line with God's thoughts on life. And so I took a step back. There are so many different views from a Christian perspective on surrogacy. And so I can respect, you know, that they have their own beliefs of their faith. But then on the other side we attend a church where my husband volunteers in the sound booth and I play the piano on stage. And so we knew obviously that we're in, especially me being on stage, my belly is going to grow and people are going to see. And so I wanted to connect with my pastors and say, hey, FYI, I'm doing this and so what are your thoughts and are you comfortable with me continuing to be on stage and you know, go through this journey? Because people will know and we talk about it and obviously from our perspective, you know, God is supportive of creating life, whatever that looks like. And so they were, we have co lead pastors, a husband and wife and they 1 are saddened that those who follow Christ could believe anything other than God is He is here to bring life to the world and he supports bringing life to the world. He created us. He created everybody in his own image and whatever that journey looks like. Who are we to say that because you were created through surrogacy or however you were, you know, needed assistance to come into this world, that that's not in line with God because God is an accepting, loving, non judgmental God. So 100% you get on that stage and you let that belly grow and you tell your story because that is, that is what Christianity is about, that is what our faith is about, is that God is here to Help bring life into the world. And if you can be a vessel for that, then amazing. And bring that, you know, bring your story forth because that's what the world needs. And so I think if anything going through this journey has allowed me to even educate myself more about why some folks believe that it is not in line with what the Bible teaches, but also then help educate as to why I think that it is in line. And why would a God that, you know, loves and accepts and creates have anything against bringing these beautiful little children into the world, whatever that journey looks like? So to go to a church where they feel accepting too, I think it just made us feel like, okay, like we can take a deep breath because we're accepted. Who we carry for would be accepted. This child is accepted. And not just in church, but in the eyes of God. They are all loved and accepted and welcomed. And so it's been eye opening to hear some of those comments and to have those conversations, but in a really positive way. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Well, and I think too, and again, not that anybody needs to be religious or whatever, this is just our faith and us talking about just what the two of us and how it applies for us. But I would be curious though, to how would people have conversations with others? And again, it does not have to be a religious setting. [00:31:18] Speaker A: It could be at work, it could be. [00:31:19] Speaker B: It could be family members, it could be whatever. Having those conversations with others that are not completely against them being a surrogate, you know, as you had alluded to about your mom earlier. And I know it's about the whole education part, but how can you go about to tell somebody like, this is a decision that I'm choosing to make to help somebody else, you know, not because of I, whatever. Because, you know, everybody thinks that you're a surrogate and so you're making this, all this money and you're, you know, about to. You're about to become a multi millionaire because you're a surrogate. So, you know, there's that. [00:32:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I think the biggest thing is, and at least for me, and again, maybe my faith plays a little bit of a role here, is it is okay for people to not understand, like, if they are not at a point where they can't understand, I can't force that. All I can do is approach the conversation from my perspective and kind of share my story and why I am doing this. And if they're not at a place where they are open to that or they can hear that, that's okay. Like it's okay for us. To walk away and not be on the same page. And I think so often we get into these debates and I'm guilty of this too for certain things where I'm like, no, my opinion is right and no, my. And it like you don't get anywhere when you have a conversation like that versus just here's my why, here's my, you know, my reason for getting into this, for agreeing to this, for thinking that this is something that I want to be on, a journey that I want to be on. And it's okay if you don't agree. That's okay too. We can still be friends and continue to move forward. We can still be family and continue to move forward with having different opinions. So I think just as long as we approach conversations like that, that not everybody is at a place where they're going to be okay to be accepting of it right now. But who knows how that conversation could turn down the road? Who knows what could happen in their life where they come back to you and say, can you tell me a little bit more about that or help me understand or. And either way, whether they do or they don't have those conversations down the road, I think just being open and honest and then kindness, whatever their reaction is, is really kind of. [00:33:46] Speaker B: How do you think you being a surrogate changed you? [00:33:53] Speaker C: I think it just made me. But I want to say more accepting because I feel like I have because I grew up in such a religious home. Sometimes it can be seen, religion can be seen as being judgmental. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:11] Speaker C: And I think that's the sad thing about Christianity or about really whatever religion you are. And so I worked so hard my whole life to be the complete opposite of that. And like, I just don't judge. I have no judgment on anybody like you do you and I will accept you for you. And I think surrogacy has probably pushed me even farther that way because there are so many different stories coming into this and accepting of where people have come from, how they got to this point of their family building journey, why people agree with it, don't agree with it. Like there are just so many different opinions. And I think it's not only in religion, but even places politically, people have different opinions about this. Like it's just such a hot topic. So I think just taking a, like a deep breath and it's okay. And we can all come to this from different places and different opinions and perspectives because we've all had different life experiences that have brought us to these experiences and these opinions and then helping My children, I think, is another thing of just helping them understand, like why this happens for some people and why surrogacy is a good option for some people and helping them see that this is okay and we can accept all and we can be loving and we can be kind. So it's been a great lesson as a parent too, to be able to have my children along this journey with me, to open their eyes to so much more. And now when I see them with my, you know, the first baby from my first journey and they're like, oh my goodness, this is the coolest thing ever. Yes, totally. Can you just keep having babies? Because this is just so awesome. So I think even just the impact that they have been able to have from it, it's just really cool. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Yep. For someone listening who might can be considering surrogacy, what would you want them to know that maybe isn't talked about enough? [00:36:10] Speaker C: I think I kind of alluded to this when I was talking about Ed saying, be patient in the beginning, I think. And I've probably even painted like a beautiful picture. Right. Like, it's just amazing and it's wonderful and it is, it is. But there's a lot of heartbreak too, that can come into these journeys. And it's not all going to be a perfect, smooth journey. And I think even for my, you know, my first journey, the medicine, like giving yourself shots, it kind of sucks. Like eventually, like giving yourself a shot every single night, you get bruised and you get knots and you get, you're like, so to be kind of sore and annoyed. Like, I'm like, do I have to sit on this heating pad anymore? Because I'm like, it just hurts, right? So I think, like, being honest at the beginning with all of that, it's not very fun. But then the goal is, right, to get to this pregnancy, which hopefully is beautiful and amazing and a great experience. But again, knowing that that's not always the case, it doesn't always work. And there can be loss and there can be heartache. And so when you come into this journey just being prepared that there are going to be some really high highs, but there could be some really low lows and you have the right people in place to support you, to help you, whatever that looks like. And then when I got to the end for delivery, my three kiddos were all easy deliveries, vaginal, like, no complications. And so when my doctor walked into my room at 1 o' clock in the morning and said, I think we need to do a C section, non emergent, so it wasn't because anything was wrong. She just had this gut feeling. And thankfully I have an amazing OB who I trust with my life. But when she walked in at one o' clock and said that, I was like, can we, can we keep waiting? Like, are you sure we need to do that? And my Janelle, if your OB is walking into your room at one o' clock in the morning to say this, I think she already thinks you should do this. [00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:03] Speaker C: So it took me like one minute of I'm gonna cry because this is not what in my mind, perfect end. Right. And then I've got the parents over here, like, oh, my goodness, are, are they freaking out? Like, this was not the plan. They were going to be in the room and it was going to be beautiful and this baby was going to come out. And now we're going heading to the operating room room. So I had like a 60 second breakdown. My doctor hugged me and then I took a deep breath and was like, okay, it's okay. If I'm healthy and baby is healthy again, that's the end goal. But also so for surrogates coming into this, it is so unpredictable. Right? Pregnancy is unpredictable. And so you just have to understand that the beginning, the shots are going to suck a little bit because they get painful and they get old. And every night, giving yourself the shot, you're going to be like, oh, my goodness, when is this going to happen? [00:38:50] Speaker B: For weeks. [00:38:51] Speaker C: Yes, weeks and weeks. And then when you get to the end again, you have no control over what that looks like. And so I think everyone talks about it being a beautiful journey, and it is, and I love it. Obviously I'm doing it again, so I want to do this again. But there can be hard moments that you just need to be able to be mentally prepared for because not everything's going to be just easy. [00:39:13] Speaker B: Yeah. What's one thing people always get wrong about surrogacy? When you tell them, you know, what. [00:39:19] Speaker C: You do, it's that giving up the baby is extremely hard. Everyone thinks like, oh, but you're such a good mom and you love being pregnant and you love having babies, so how are you going to give that baby up? And I had a friend who was a surrogate before I even started this journey. And she said to me, and I think it was the best way to describe it is there is just a healthy disconnection between you and this child. And so again, like I said, you're, you're pregnant for nine months, but you have, you're not preparing for a Nursery for nine months and a name and daycare and all the things. Instead, you have nine months to prepare that. All right, this baby is growing, it's getting bigger. She's getting bigger, whatever. And then at the end, okay, so mentally, you've prepared yourself that you're giving away this child to their family. And then that moment of seeing the baby with them, it, like, all comes full circle, and that's how it's meant to be. So I think that's the biggest misconception is that giving away the baby is going to be, like, traumatic and hard. And it could be for some, but I think mentally being in a space of this healthy disconnection from this child is a good way to kind of phrase that. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, for definitely. If you could go back and give yourself advice before starting this journey, what would you tell yourself? [00:40:35] Speaker C: I think to be flexible and adaptable. It's really important. Through this journey, I am a very. My husband would say I'm ocd, I'm not ocd, but I am very, like, black and white. And I like. I like to know the plan, right. Which is why typically, I'm the planner in our family. Right? Like, if we're going to take a trip, I know exactly what we're taking in the suitcase and where everything goes and where we're going. And at the end, like, it's all planned out. And surrogacy is not like that. Right. Like, you can do this and be like, here's what I want and here's what's going to happen, and here's how it's going to all. And it's this beautiful package with a bow. And you learn really quickly. That's just not how it goes. So I think before my first journey, just telling myself to, like, take deep breaths, don't rush the process. Like, let it happen naturally. Everything is in place for a reason. We follow the process for a reason. And it's okay to pivot. It's okay to trust people to make decisions on your behalf. That's just something that I think I would have told myself before going into the first one. [00:41:41] Speaker B: So any final thoughts of what you would like to share with anybody considering surrogacy or on the cusp of, like, I don't know, maybe, maybe not, or that's already in process and just like, well, I'm not really sure. Xyz. [00:42:01] Speaker C: I think, yeah, I would love to first talk with anyone that has questions about it, just even sharing my own journey and what that's been like. But I think if you're to the point where you're looking into this, having just conversations, open conversations with people is super helpful. Doing research can be great and can be not great. So I think take it with a grain of salt. There's a lot of opinions out there. There's a lot of groups on different social media platforms that can deter you one way or move you another way. And so I think you have to kind of get to a point where you formulate your own thoughts and your own opinions based off of what you're researching, because everybody has an opinion. And so feeling comfortable with your gut feeling and why you're doing this and where you want to go and knowing that you are working with people that are a good support system and having a good support system in place is pretty important as you're kind of beginning the journey. And if you're in the middle of the journey, feel encouraged that you're doing an amazing thing and you are giving the most precious gift to anybody possible. And so thank you for being willing to, to do this for other families. And yeah, I just think it's an amazing experience. Even with the highs, even with the lows all around, it's beautiful. And be. Yeah. Share your story. I think that's how people can help each other. Just continue to talk about it, continue to share what your experience is like, why you did this, who you're doing it for. And that will only help build the knowledge for everyone around that doesn't understand why this is such an incredible gift. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more, so. Well, thanks, Janelle. I appreciate you coming on, sharing your, your personal journey, obviously, and just, you know, kind of helping to get again, educate people because that's the biggest thing. Like it's, you know, Everybody goes to Dr. Google, but Dr. Google isn't always correct with the information that is put out there. So getting firsthand knowledge from someone who's walked those shoes, I think can be just extremely beneficial. [00:44:24] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. It was awesome. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Thank you for everyone listening. Remember that becoming a surrogate is a deeply personal decision that requires careful consideration. Whether you're just starting to explore surrogacy or ready to take the next step, make sure to do your research and connect with experienced professionals. Thank you for joining us at the Fertility Cafe. 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